F2L with 0 rotation

[pjk]

This is the second time this happens. Both Michael and Gilles haven't posted here in a long time. Their names get mentioned in a topic and all of a sudden they start posting again.
Are you just lurking/viewing all the time, or do you have a "name-scanner"-bot running in the background smile.gif

I noticed that too. I think a lot more people read the forums, but only some post.

 

[Tomarse]

Personally no rotation is alot faster, but im left handed and can't do L turns as fast as R which is really weird, so personally i think no rotation is easier, because you are not spending time looking around the cube you are just spinning the top layer and so on ;]

 

[dChan]

It is not that you are looking around the cube, it is just that you are rotating the cuube so you can do an alg.

 

[Harris Chan]

lol ok i think it's time for me to give a reply now too

While considering only the 41 "basic" case, and from 4 slots, that means a total of 41*4=164 algos. So all you need to do is run the Cube Explorer and see what algos it shoots out--or you can just figure them out intuitively.

The algos are probably not too bad, but I'd experiment with whether doing the no-rotation-algo is faster than with-rotation-algo.

Here's a bad thing about 0 rotation: You won't be able to see the other pairs as easily, as they may be stuck in the BL or BR slot. That's the side effect of rotating: you get to see the other slots/pairs while you're solving the current one. And that is crucial to a smooth and non-stop F2L. Not just a quick execution, but also a quick recognition. I'd say 2 rotations for F2L would be good (1 after the cross, and do 2 pairs no rotation, perhaps FR and BR slot, and rotate again to solve the other 2).

That brings me to another question: Is your next F2L pair usually adjacent to the current pair, or diagonal? Do you rotate only in one direction (such as y')?

It's kinda like a poll B)

-Harris

Mine's random, but a lot of times I do 1.5 pairs before rotating.

 

[AvGalen]

No need for cube explorer. It has been done years ago: http://www.speedcubing.com/peter/AllesFastTwoLayer.html

For the poll: The first pair is random. second pair adjacent to first, third pair adjacent to second, fourth pair adjacent to third PREFERABLY. This means that sometime I use y 3 times, other times I use y' 3 times. Same with centers on bigcubes!

P.S. when I said pairs, I mean corners. I do the same for edges afterwards (keyhole)

 

[Erik]

lol, I love the 'alles' part in that link

And my pairing order is very...random..

 

[pjk]

My pairing is very random as well....

 

[gillesvdp]

Here is an example of a 0 cube rotation F2L...
I wish all cubes were like that.

As for me, I do not solve them "in a cycle". I just solve the one I see or the easiest I see among the ones I see.
==> Random distribution on that matter.

 

[Harris Chan]

Mitchell Stern has generated some nice algos for F2L, Optimal, RrU, RFU at http://opticubes.com/f2l.php If you mirror the algos around, you can have the algos for all the cases with no rotation, using only RrLlU (I think if u is there then it can be a bit easier too). However, some algo is quite lengthy, which might be slower than if you just waste sometime to rotate and do the traditional algo.

Scramble: U R2 B2 D' U' F D R2 L' F2 U' L2 F2 D F' R' D2 L2 F U L2 R' U' L2 B
Cross colour = D
(Remember that lowercase means double layer turns)
No Rotation method:

Cross: x L' U L U2 x' D' R D2

F2L 1: u R' U R

F2L 2: R U2 R' u' U R' U' R

F2L 3: R U' l L2 U L U' l' L R'

F2L 4: U' R' r U R' U' r' R

Normal Method:

Cross: x L' U L U2 x' D' R D2

F2L 1: D R' U' R

F2L 2: D2 y' L' U2 L

F2L 3: R U2 R' u R U R'

F2L 4: U L' U L U d R U R'

I need a different example...this one isn't a nice one...

-Harris

 

[Jason Baum]

Hey Harris,

It's an interesting idea, but I don't see it being faster at all, at least for me. It seems like that would be really hard to recognize, plus the move count is way up.

By the way, check this out for the final two pairs of that solution (no rotation either):

F2L 3 and 4: R F U F' U2 R

 

[pjk]

I'd have to agree with you Jason.

 

[blade740]

Mike Bennett does something like this. He solves edge orientation during the cross, so that the entire F2L is in RUL. This also means that there are no cube rotations during the whole solve. It seems like it could be insanely fast if he finished learning it.

 

[Harris Chan]

Another idea is to just orient the F2L edges...ignoring the LL edges. May be this will speed things up? :S

 

[Jack]

Does it just use algs or is it intuitive?

 

[Harris Chan]

They use intuitive algos

 

[Lotsofsloths]

Sorry to revive a ridicuously old thread that has been dead for MANY months, but..
For the scramble; R U' R' d R' U2 R(inverse of what you would solve)
why not do this;
(M') R' U2 R U2 R' U R U' (M)
I know its long, but since thats the last pair, you have to solve the M slice...
If it were the first or second, or third, you could mess up the 2 M cross pieces all u want, than insert them WHILE inserting the 4th pair. BTW, using M moves in the F2l will allow 0 rotations..

 

[badmephisto]

I think this was already discussed and the consensus was that Roux method is superior to Fridrich because it ignores the middle slices that always get in your way with Fridrich. That allows for solving almost entire F2L with 0 rotations and quite quickly. If I only were not too lazy I would have been a Roux user by now

 

[Lotsofsloths]

@Badmephisto, Roux takes more practice to master though, its more intuitive, and that slows a cuber down.

 

[deadalnix]

Mike Bennett does something like this. He solves edge orientation during the cross, so that the entire F2L is in RUL. This also means that there are no cube rotations during the whole solve. It seems like it could be insanely fast if he finished learning it.

I personnaly work on a 222 bloc then extended cross with edge orientation. I think It have a great potential.

 

[Joël]

I actually use quite a few algs with F moves in them... But it's not really the ultimate 'goal' to ban out rotations. I am with Jean Pons on this one: You can rotate a lot, and profit by that by seeing more.

However, some algs without cube rotations are just very nice... Like R'FRF' RU'R', or it's inverse. Or how about RU'R' FR'F'R?