# [Help Thread]How many cube rotation during the F2L is best?

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#### Speedysolver

##### Member
0?
1-3?
4-6?
7 or more?
how many cube rotation is good for the f2l ?
I do 2-4 rotation avarage rotation is that ok?

##### Member
Ideally none but this can understandably be a bit unrealistic. About 1-3 should be good and no more than 1 rotation per slot and preferably less would be good.

#### PenguinsDontFly

##### Member
1-3 because 1 per pair is too much because 2 of the F2L edges will be oriented relative to your orientation after cross/after one rotation

Thanks

#### Sajwo

##### Member
I think you don't quite know what "optimal" means

##### Member
Lol first two people who answer are the two of the people who don't F2L

#### PenguinsDontFly

##### Member
Lol first two people who answer are the two of the people who don't F2L

dude I average like 13 with da fop I can F2L

#### turtwig

##### Member
Wouldn't 0 be optimal?

#### JustinTimeCuber

Zero.

##### Member
dude I average like 13 with da fop I can F2L

Yeah I can sub-20 CFOP with 3LLL (Eo, COLL, EPLL) so I'm not too shabby either

#### PenguinsDontFly

##### Member
Wouldn't 0 be optimal?

it is implied that by "optimal", OP wants "speed optimal" in this case

Yeah I can sub-20 CFOP with 3LLL (Eo, COLL, EPLL) so I'm not too shabby either

haha not too bad! I do edge control, COLL, EPLL cuz I dont know PLL (and I never will cuz soon I'll do 2 look LL with ollcp and epll because pll is for the weak)

#### Lucas Wesche

##### Member
I would go with pdf and shadowslice and say 1-3

#### TDM

##### Member
If you want to solve with <L, U, R, y> only then you can solve any F2L (after cross) with only one y rotation.

However, you'll find that most of the time this adds on a couple extra moves, so anywhere between 1-3 is best in a speedsolve.

Optimal means 0.

#### CubePro

##### Member
Optimal-best or most favourable; optimum.
Optimal is of course zero

#### turtwig

##### Member
it is implied that by "optimal", OP wants "speed optimal" in this case

How is 0 rotations not speed optimal?

#### Cale S

##### Member
How is 0 rotations not speed optimal?

Sometimes rotating is faster, for example F U' F' U F U F' is not as fast as y' R U' R' U R U R'

#### Johnny

##### Member
Sometimes rotating is faster, for example F U' F' U F U F' is not as fast as y' R U' R' U R U R'

yeah, if you never rotate you can be forced to use awkward algs. If you work on your finger tricks I guess it could be possible for rotationless algs to be faster for you, but that sounds like a lot of work to me.

#### CubePro

##### Member
How is 0 rotations not speed optimal?

0 rotations is definitely not speed optimal, but it is optimal. And if you don't want any rotations in your solves, you can always keep the pseudo pair in the F face and do d and d' moves.
Sometimes rotating is faster, for example F U' F' U F U F' is not as fast as y' R U' R' U R U R'

Or you can do F U' F' d' R U R'

#### CriticalCubing

##### Member
0 rotations is definitely not speed optimal, but it is optimal. And if you don't want any rotations in your solves, you can always keep the pseudo pair in the F face and do d and d' moves.

Or you can do F U' F' d' R U R'

Better yet, start doing edge control while doing f2l. Learn rotationless solving, use empty slots more. Having no rotations in f2l seems very doable but I would say try to aim for 2 rotations or anywhere between 1-3. I do lots of rotations and sometimes it is inefficient.

While I was away, I made a video doing "optimal" aka zero rotation f2l.

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