Cross, F2L times

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Feb 26, 2007
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I've been working on my cross and F2L and I wanted to see how long it takes other people to solve these steps, and what their full solve averages are.

Cross 10/12

Average: 06.14 seconds
Individual Times: 06.59, 05.09, (09.97), 04.64, 05.02, 07.45, 09.89, 07.45, 03.94, 05.31, (03.27), 06.06

F2L 10/12

Average: 21.40 seconds
Individual Times: 18.94, 24.66, 26.09, 20.30, 22.45, 21.45, 17.89, 17.86, (26.97), 24.02, (17.12), 20.33

My F2L times are with the cross already solved.

Full solve 3/5

Average: 50.32
Individual Times: (58.03), 54.80, 45.81, 50.36, (44.17)
 
I got such a weak cross.. I didnt bother to time it. nor my F2l.

but my cross times are like 6-7 seconds.
and F2L 20-25 seconds I guess

I would love to have a F2L with just a tiny bit of flow to it.. bah
 
Originally posted by doubleyou@Apr 11 2007, 12:23 PM
I got such a weak cross.. I didnt bother to time it. nor my F2l.

but my cross times are like 6-7 seconds.
and F2L 20-25 seconds I guess

I would love to have a F2L with just a tiny bit of flow to it.. bah
Is your F2L time done with the cross already finished?
 
Originally posted by doubleyou@Apr 11 2007, 12:49 PM
btw. how long time have you been cubing?
and how has your progree been?
I've been cubing since Feb. 17th, but for about three of those weeks I didn't have a cube. I guess my progress is okay, I'm not really sure, it's something I'd like to know.

EDIT: How long have you been cubing, and how's your progress?
 
My cross times:

Average: 03.62 seconds
Individual Times: (02.06), 03.84, 04.62, 03.28, 03.19, (05.36), 03.20, 03.42, 04.44, 03.00, 04.35, 02.87

I need to learn how to do it 1,6 secs faster... then I will be satisfied.


This was rather an experiment for planning ahead... 4 F2L Pairs with WITH preinspection. I wish I could do this on regular solving.

Average: 11.30
10.78 13.99 (14.46) 14.04 (07.99) 11.52 11.89 9.20 11.12 09.86 08.61 11.96
 
Originally posted by KJiptner@Apr 11 2007, 01:26 PM
My cross times:

Average: 03.62 seconds
Individual Times: (02.06), 03.84, 04.62, 03.28, 03.19, (05.36), 03.20, 03.42, 04.44, 03.00, 04.35, 02.87

I need to learn how to do it 1,6 secs faster... then I will be satisfied.
Wow... and I thought I had a fairly good time...
 
Hi Inferno,

First off I just want to say your times are really good, especially considering how long you've been cubing! When I had been cubing two months I was barely sub-2 minutes :P

Here is an average I took just like yours. I did each as a stop-start solve meaning I started, and when I finished the cross I stopped and immediately started the timer again to finsih the F2L.

Here were the times:
Format is
A) Cross, F2L (after cross is done)

1) 2.05, 7.59
2) 2.30, 6.79
3) 1.90, 8.12
4) 2.16, 8.08
5) 1.58, 7.20
6) 2.67, 9.48
7) 2.49, 8.12
8) 2.71, 7.71
9) 1.64, 9.17,
10) 2.57, 6.44
11) 3.40, 7.30
12) 1.26, 6.21

Cross average: 2.21 seconds
2.05, 2.30, 1.90, 2.16, 1.58, 2.67, 2.49, 2.71, 1.64, 2.57, (3.40), (1.26)

F2L (with cross already completed): 7.65 seconds
7.59, 6.79, 8.12, 8.08, 7.20, (9.48), 8.12, 7.71, 9.17, 6.44, 7.30, (6.21)

As for improving your F2L there are a few techniques. First off make sure you know how you will continue solving in *every* case you see. You can use intuitive stuff, but make sure you have a plan no matter what you see. Also, remember the phrase "slow is fast". The faster you try to go during F2L, the less you'll be able to look ahead while doing turns and the slower your time will be. This is absolutely *the* hardest thing to learn about F2L. Go just slightly slower than your max speed to make sure you can still look ahead. Some would disagree with me here, but that helps me.

Also I recommend solving your F2L to a metronome sometimes as a drill. http://www.metronomeonline.com

Set the metronome to some setting, say around 60 to start, and you *have* to do a turn on every beat. You can't do more turns or less turns, you must do a turn every beat. If you mess up and turn too fast, or if you miss a beat without doing a turn you have to stop and rescramble and start over.

It's harder than it sounds, but once you get used to it you'll develop a rhythm and it's easy to do speeds of 120 or even as much as 180 if you're very warmed up.

Just some tips, your times are very good considering how long you've been cubing. But if you want to take it to the next level try the metronome, and just practice practice practice!

Hope this helps,
Chris
 
Originally posted by cmhardw@Apr 11 2007, 01:45 PM
Hi Inferno,

First off I just want to say your times are really good, especially considering how long you've been cubing! When I had been cubing two months I was barely sub-2 minutes :P

Here is an average I took just like yours. I did each as a stop-start solve meaning I started, and when I finished the cross I stopped and immediately started the timer again to finsih the F2L.

Here were the times:
Format is
A) Cross, F2L (after cross is done)

1) 2.05, 7.59
2) 2.30, 6.79
3) 1.90, 8.12
4) 2.16, 8.08
5) 1.58, 7.20
6) 2.67, 9.48
7) 2.49, 8.12
8) 2.71, 7.71
9) 1.64, 9.17,
10) 2.57, 6.44
11) 3.40, 7.30
12) 1.26, 6.21

Cross average: 2.21 seconds
2.05, 2.30, 1.90, 2.16, 1.58, 2.67, 2.49, 2.71, 1.64, 2.57, (3.40), (1.26)

F2L (with cross already completed): 7.65 seconds
7.59, 6.79, 8.12, 8.08, 7.20, (9.48), 8.12, 7.71, 9.17, 6.44, 7.30, (6.21)

As for improving your F2L there are a few techniques. First off make sure you know how you will continue solving in *every* case you see. You can use intuitive stuff, but make sure you have a plan no matter what you see. Also, remember the phrase "slow is fast". The faster you try to go during F2L, the less you'll be able to look ahead while doing turns and the slower your time will be. This is absolutely *the* hardest thing to learn about F2L. Go just slightly slower than your max speed to make sure you can still look ahead. Some would disagree with me here, but that helps me.

Also I recommend solving your F2L to a metronome sometimes as a drill. http://www.metronomeonline.com

Set the metronome to some setting, say around 60 to start, and you *have* to do a turn on every beat. You can't do more turns or less turns, you must do a turn every beat. If you mess up and turn too fast, or if you miss a beat without doing a turn you have to stop and rescramble and start over.

It's harder than it sounds, but once you get used to it you'll develop a rhythm and it's easy to do speeds of 120 or even as much as 180 if you're very warmed up.

Just some tips, your times are very good considering how long you've been cubing. But if you want to take it to the next level try the metronome, and just practice practice practice!

Hope this helps,
Chris
It's great to know that my progress is really good! I'll be sure to use your metronome drill! Thanks a ton for all the tips, I'm sure they'll help.
 
Great tips Chris!

I will try the metronome, it sounds fun and interesting. It reminds me of the "go slow, don't stop" mantra I like very much.

I will time my Cross/F2L times tomorrow. They will be slightly difficult to compare with Fridrich Cross/F2L because I use keyhole. That means cross is 1 move less for me in 75% of all cases. In 75% of all cases I have to do that move at the start of my edge-OLL.
 
Chris, interesting post. My cross avg is a little under 3 seconds, total F2L avg (counting cross) is around 11 seconds. My LL really needs work, and so does my F2L. Work on looking ahead, that is key. While you are putting in a pair, be looking for the next pair.
 
very interesting practice exercise with the metronome! gotta try that out!
I know I'll panic all the time tho.. I freeze so often! hehe

well I have been cubing for two months now.. and my progrees have been really bad until two weeks ago where my times dropped like 10-15 sec on avg. I guess it was when I started to take my F2L serious..

its funny, I have yet to see someone post like "I am totally satisfied with my times" .EVERYBODY says that their F2L neeeds work :)
but this is great right? this is what keeps us going!

I cant imgaine Harris Chan in like 2-3 years.. :o
 
Hey, I didn't really time them separately--I used the rubiks.tw/timer that times the breakdown of the solve (cross, F2L, OLL, PLL), but the timer just keeps going. anyway, the solve was broken down to this:



Cube:3x3x3
Method:Fridrich Method
Countdown:0sec.
Remove the best and worst:1 attempts
Date:2007-4-12 19:9:42

Index Cross F2L
1 2.163 5.457
2 (1.262) 4.847
3 2.013 5.347
4 1.973 5.608
5 2.033 6.229
6 1.953 6.409
7 [2.664] (4.256)
8 1.863 5.688
9 1.582 6.620
10 1.983 5.899
11 1.743 5.708
12 1.302 [7.100]
13 2.314 5.808
14 2.063 6.029
15 1.873 4.827
16 1.672 5.919
17 1.882 6.209

Average 1.902 5.762
Average 15/17 1.894 5.773

Scramble patterns
1 F' D B F' L B2 D L2 F2 U2 L R2 D2 B' L2 B L B2 F2 L' D U B F2 U
2 R B F' R2 D2 U B' F2 L' R' U L2 U' L D2 U' L' R D2 U F2 U B' F2 R
3 L' B F D2 F' L' B F L2 R' B' U2 B' D' U B' F' R B' R2 B' F' L R2 U'
4 D R2 B2 F D2 F2 D' B F' D' B' U F2 U2 B' F' L' R F D B' F2 U2 L' D
5 L' R2 F' L F' D' U B2 F R B' L2 B2 F2 D' B2 L2 B' F' R2 D2 U L F' U2
6 D R2 B' F R2 B' F2 U' R U2 L2 R B2 F' U' B' U2 R2 B' D R' B' F' D U
7 L D2 L2 R D' U2 L D2 U' F D U2 F L R B2 F' L2 R2 D B' F2 L' D U'
8 U' L' R U2 L2 D U L2 R B F L F L F U L R2 U2 B U2 L' B F R2
9 D' U B' D' L' R D2 U B' U2 L2 B2 D' L R2 B2 L2 R2 B2 D' U' B2 L' R F'
10 L' R F D2 B' F L B2 F' L R D' U B2 D2 L B D L2 D U2 B D U2 R'
11 L2 B2 F L2 F' R F' L2 B2 L R B' F' U2 L2 R2 F D2 L2 D R2 D' U' L' R2
12 R' U2 L2 U2 L R' B' F' L2 R F2 U' B F D' U2 F' U' R2 D' R' D2 U' B R
13 F' R B' L2 R2 D R U L R' F2 R' B' D2 U B' F' L2 R2 B D' U' L D F'
14 F' R2 D F' L B2 L' U F' D R B2 R' D' U' L' R D2 U2 B F' R2 D2 B2 D'
15 L' U' R2 D' L2 D' F2 L' R U2 R2 U B F U R D B F2 D U B2 U' R2 U2
16 U' B2 D B' D L' U L' R B F' D2 U2 R2 B2 L R U2 F R D2 R2 B2 D U
17 L2 R2 B' R2 U B F2 L D2 L R B2 D U B' D2 U B2 F2 R U2 L F L F'

This was done with my new DIY from cube4you.com. I really need to work on the LL part (it's around 4+ seconds). Instead of keeping the cross face at D when I solve the cross, I just solve the cross at which ever angle is the easiest/fastest to do, and it'll end up at D face when I finish anyway. There are some double layer turns and rotations, but I get to see the different F2L pieces as I rotate for the cross. I guess that's why my F2L time still wasn't slower from doing a "fast" cross.

I really don't use much special tricks for the F2L...I just turn as fast as I could. Sometimes I think I even turn faster on the F2L than my LL o.O Multi-slotting might not be easy to do at high speed, because you might have to change your algo when inserting the current pair, so that the next pair is solved. But who knows...it's might be the real path to an even faster F2L. W Also, I rarely do x-cross...may be I should start to learn that. But since my cross is around 2 seconds, and the F2L is less than 1.5 seconds each, that means that the x-cross much be done in less than 3.5, otherwise there isn't any advantage.

What other F2L tricks are there? The ones I've heard of are...empty slots, multiple angles solving...mis-aligned pairs...double / x-cross...multi-slotting...full neutral/opposite colour solving.

-Harris

PS, this is done a while back, but here's what Gungz did (5 solves)

1 (1.000) 5.797 1.968 2.688 (11.453)
F2 L' R B' F2 L2 R' D2 B2 F2 D2 U L2 R2 D R2 B' F L2 F' U B F D' U'

2 2.000 [8.641] 2.562 2.625 [15.828] D R B U' L2 R' U

L2 D2 F2 D2 L R B2 U F D' U2 L2 R2 U R' B' D U

3 2.563 (5.734) 2.188 (1.625) 12.110 B' U2 L D2 U L B

F L' R2 B2 R F2 L2 F2 D2 U L' R' D' U L' B' D U

4 [3.016] 6.703 (1.953) [2.969] 14.641 F' U R

F2 D' U' B2 L' B' L2 R' U R F U B2 D2 R2 B' L R D2 F' L R'

5 1.422 5.922 [2.906] 1.657 11.907 B2 F2 L B' U' R' D U' R2

F2 D U2 B' L B F2 R B2 U2 L R D F2 D L

Average 2.000 6.559 2.315 2.312 13.187
Average of all but the fastest and slowest attempt 1.995 6.140 2.239 2.323 12.886
 
Originally posted by Harris Chan@Apr 12 2007, 11:23 PM
What other F2L tricks are there? The ones I've heard of are...empty slots, multiple angles solving...mis-aligned pairs...double / x-cross...multi-slotting...full neutral/opposite colour solving.
You can do most algs from all angles though? And have amazing look-ahead.

On another note, Harris, please don't try learn any more F2L tricks. Soon no-one will have a chance of catching up!
 
Nope, I haven't yet, but I will on May 19th, at the Canadian Open. I don't think I can handle the pressure and be as fast at home though -.- But I'll try my best.

-Harris

PS There's this guy that seems to stalk me down and want to beat me up at the competition lmao.
 
After those amazing times of Harris, i hesitate to post my times....but I will anyway:

Cross-Only: 3.13 average
3.18, 3.00, 2.72, (1.56), 3.04, 3.72, 3.19, 2.40, 2.24, (4.57), 3.57, 4.26
Rest of F2L-Only: 13.59 average
(12.01), 14.75, 13.23, 12.77, 15.80, 12.31, 12.29, 13.97, 12.83, 14.65, 13.31, (17.24)
Full F2L: 16.68 average
15.19, 17.75, 15.95, (14.33), 18.84, 16.03, 15.48, 16.37, 15.07, 19.22, 16.88, (21.50)

As most of you will know by now, this is using working corner.

Harris: Don't worry about "performance/pressure" at competition. You are there for fun remember! Everybody seems to handle competition pressure differently. Jo?l van Noort seems likely to "screw up" his first solve, then perform just like at home. Erik seems to be very nervous and is slower most of the time. I am much more focussed and alsothe lighting is better, so I usually break my personal (at home) records during a competition.
 
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