[Help Thread] CPLS and 2GLL discussion

[Shiv3r]

yes, true.

 

[mDiPalma]

I've recently been playing around with CPLS, and I find it very promising, especially from a Petrus perspective.

I've regenerated (what I consider to be) better algs for the cases with the corner in the U-layer:

Spoiler: Modern CPLS Algs

2swap in back (these are just <RU> solutions):
CW: (U) R U R' U2 R U R' (7)
ACW: (U') R U' R' U2 R U' R' (7)
O: R2 U R2 U R2 U2 R2 (7)

2swap on left (these are just y' then <RU> solutions):
CW: (y' U) R' U R U2 R' U R (7)
ACW: (y' U') R' U' R U2 R' U' R (7)
O: (y') R2 U' R2 U' R2 U2 R2 (7)

UFL -> URF:
CW: [L D' L' : U] (7)
ACW: (y U') [L D L' : U] (7)
O: (y U2) R U' L2 U R' U' L2 (7)

UBR -> URF:
CW: (U) [R' D' R : U'] (7)
ACW: (y) [R' D R : U'] (7)
O: (U2) L' U R2 U' L U R2 (7)

ULB -> URF:
CW: (U2) [R' D' R : U2] (7)
ACW: (y U2) [L D L' : U2] (7)
O: (U2) u R2 u' F u R2 u' F' (8)
    or (R' F R F')*3 (12)
    or (U2) R' D' U2 R U R' U D R (9)

no motion:
CW: (U) R U R2 D' r U2 r' D R (9)
ACW: (U') R' D' r U2 r' D R2 U' R' (9)
O: R U R' U2 R U2 L U' R' U L' (11)

*note all the ACW single motion cases begin from a y rotation

In methods that solve EO before the LS, sliding in the last F2L edge only takes 2 htm on average. This number can drop if you pull in the F2L edge with a U-layer corner earlier in the solve.

Using the ergonomic algs posted above, as well as Baian's original algs for the cases with the corner in place (but r U2 R2' F R F' R U2 r' for the pure diagonal swap), gives you 8.22 htm for CPLS.

And I recently found that optimal <RU> 2GLLs are 13.15 htm.

Then, assuming 25 htm for EOF2L-1 (typical for ZZ, conservative for Petrus) and accounting for AUFs as executed, this entire method only requires ~50 htm. And if you use ZZ-Orbit for cases in which the F2L pair is already made, this number can also drop slightly. That's pretty good for a method with an ergonomic <RU> finish. And the efficiency actually beats out many LS/LL methods of a comparable alg count.


I also put together this CPLS Trainer to practice the CLL-esque recognition. You might need to zoom out slightly depending on your screen/resolution.

 

[genericcuber666]

I really want to learn this but the recognition makes no sense i get the example that stacchu did, but when I try any other case it doesn't make sense. could you show how to recognize cpls with this setup: t perm triple sexy?

 

[Shiv3r]

I really want to learn this but the recognition makes no sense i get the example that stacchu did, but when I try any other case it doesn't make sense. could you show how to recognize cpls with this setup: t perm triple sexy?

recog for CPLS is one of the reasons no one uses it.
If I were using it in ZZ (probably OH), I would suggest just learning the algs for ZZ-D(ZZ-Porky2, theres a doc somewhere, only 6 cases to recognize and the longest alg is like 3 moves long)

 

[mDiPalma]

I really want to learn this but the recognition makes no sense i get the example that stacchu did, but when I try any other case it doesn't make sense. could you show how to recognize cpls with this setup: t perm triple sexy?

I think the recognition schemes proposed by Stachu and Cyragia are not ideal for speedsolving. Instead, I recommend either a CLL-type recognition (something like 160 cases) or intuitively identifying opposite/adjacent/not pairs of corners in the U-layer (the people I've taught to solve the cube use a Petrus-style LL and even they can figure this out in just a few moments).

For the latter, on your example, both the UFL and ULB corners have green stickers, but they wouldn't be on the same side if the corners were oriented. Therefore, they will have to swap places. The corresponding CPLS alg for that is [y'] R2 U' R2 U' R2 U2 R2.

 

[Y2k1]

sorry for not understanding this claearly, but is cpls inserting the edge and then inserting the f2l corner and cp, or is it doing cp and then doing the ls like normal?

 

[mDiPalma]

sorry for not understanding this claearly, but is cpls inserting the edge and then inserting the f2l corner and cp, or is it doing cp and then doing the ls like normal?

1) insert edge
2) insert corner and solve CP
3) 2gll

 

[CubingGenius]

Do you know what the average movecount would be if you solve the last pair and CP simultaneously? 120 unique cases if I'm right?

 

[Y2k1]

1) insert edge
2) insert corner and solve CP
3) 2gll

thanks

 

[Arc]

So reading this thread many times I see "it sounds really cool but the recognition seems really hard." I learned Teoidus' 2GR recently and realized that a similar (virtually identical) recognition scheme can be applied to CPLS. I don't take any credit for it (apparently it originates with Porkynator, and I wouldn't be surprised if people already did something similar intuitively), but I thought that it would be useful to have a good structured recognition approach posted on this thread.

As a prerequisite you have to know your LL corners by identity. I use numbers for their names for simplicity. I personally solve on blue/green (with black instead of yellow) and for me, the orange-black corner is 1, the black-red corner is 2, the red-white corner is 3, and the white-orange corner is 4. You can label your corners however you want but you need to be able to recognize them by name and know their relative positions.

Now, once you have set up to CPLS, follow the corners clockwise starting clockwise of the D layer corner (or starting in UFL if the D corner is in D). For example you could have 2 3 1. Now look at the relationships, as shown by the fancy diagram that I totally didn't make in paint. 3 is forward from 2, 1 is diagonally across from 3. Those two relationships (forward, jump) together correspond directly to which of the 6 CP states you have.

This becomes very fast in an actual solve, once you practice it changes from identifying the corners and then the relationships to doing it first relationship then second relationship to simply looking at the three corners and immediately seeing their relationships.

Spoiler: Relationship Correspondences

Relationships	Swap
Forward, Forward	No Swap
Forward, Jump	Swap on Right
Backward, Backward	Diagonal Swap
Backward, Jump	Swap on Left
Jump, Forward	Swap in Front
Jump, Backward	Swap in Back

Spoiler: Color Neutrality

As for color neutrality, x2 y neutrality is trivially easy and generally what most people use. If you want to use different colors on top/bottom you'd have to learn new names for the corners. Since the only thing that matters is the relative positions of the corners, it doesn't matter what front you use, as long as the top is the same, you do not change a single thing about how you're recognizing. The corner names and relationships stay the same. When you flip the cube and use the opposite color for the up face, there's one minute difference. Instead of starting clockwise and reading clockwise, start anticlockwise of the D corner (or in UBR if it's in the D layer) and read the corners anticlockwise. The corner names and relationships remain the same.

P.S. Sorry for bump.

 

[PapaSmurf]

I'll bump the thread. This is an idea I had over a year ago now, again inspired by 2GR recog, and I think that it has potential. It is based off a post somewhere on the forums, but made better. I'm not certain how brilliant or bad it is, but it's a thing that could work. Average movecount is 7+7+4+7+13+14.5=52.5, as the steps are eoline, block, cp, FL, right block, 2gll. The way it works is that you use the method described above to find the relationship between the corners for any position of the DFL corner. You then do an alg which solves cp and removes any pieces on L from R. LU to solve left pair, then RU for the rest of the solve. This is unfortunately something that I haven't worked on for a while nor do I plan to work on, as I believe that ZZ-A is far superior in terms of ergonomics, recog and movecount, but if anyone wants to fully develop it, that'd be great. Here's the incomplete doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1iJn6wzG9jYefRqOp0C3REtJCOAns1aAwYITV8UV0V5A/edit?usp=sharing

 

[IsThatA4x4]

Is it worth it to learn full or near full 2GLL to take advantage of it (like you would do with COLL) in a CFOP solve? The algs are generally short and fast and the only problem I can see is CP recognition. What do you think?

 

[OreKehStrah]

Is it worth it to learn full or near full 2GLL to take advantage of it (like you would do with COLL) in a CFOP solve? The algs are generally short and fast and the only problem I can see is CP recognition. What do you think?

Yes! 2GLL would be a great subset of ZBLL to learn, especially for OH. Over time you'll get used to recognizing when you have solved CP, so that shouldn't be an issue either.

 

[DuckubingCuber347]

What's the best approach for CPLS for an F2L-1, EO most likely not solved? Would it be CPEO>>LS, EOC>>CPE, or maybe some other approach?

 

[cuber-zz]

Hello, all.
I just thought I'd introduce these two together, mainly because of their close relation to each other.

I recommend looking at the CPLS page first, and then the 2GLL page.

I did not invent/create either method/sub-step; I just think that they haven't been published very well (especially CPLS) and thought it would be nice to give them a bit of a boost, so I went ahead, found/documented a bunch of algs, made some print-out pages, and made the wikis.

Right now, pretty much all of my stuff for both of these is geared for OH, but 2H-specific algs shall come eventually if requested.

Neither of these pages are perfect, or even complete for that matter - far from it! However, I think that this should help get some people interested.

Some stuff not noted in the wikis that probably won't interest you:

Spoiler

What I plan to do after learning CPLS/2GLL:

• For C cases, just do COLL for non-sune/anti-sune cases, and just (anti)sune then PLL for those.
• For I and Im cases, I plan to just do CLS, then PLL. I and Im cases are very easy and simple to memorize. One can only learn 8 of them and be able to successfully sub2 any of these cases, with recognition, very very easily.
• For -/+/O cases, if I get a case that is an adjacent switch in the back (UBL, UBR), I know that a 2-gen CLS will reduce the case to EPLL.
• If the aforementioned adjacent switch is on the left (UFL, UBL), then I plan to do a y' rotation, then a CLS alg from that angle, also resulting in an EPLL.
• For I, Im, and C cases, if you come across them and want to do an 'intuitive' CPLS, then you can simply Niklas your way out of an adjacent swap on the right or F triple-sexy F' for a diagonal, then proceed to either CLS or simply finish the rest with other 2-gen awesomeness.
• CPLS can be a pain to recognize at first, but once you get used to searching fast for the three stickers and comparing them to your color scheme, it gets okay - I've been on this for only a few night (I haven't memorized anything yet, though) and it's working pretty nicely.
• This seems to have much more potential for OH than for 2H. Actually, I think it has LOTS of OH potential, if the CPLS recognition is relatively fluent.
• I'd like to see how color-neutral users deal with this. Only opposite-neutral myself, I'd say that simply knowing which side I'm ending up on allows me to recognize either case just as fast as the other.
• 2GLL algs feel awesome both OH and 2H.
• 2GLL algs average ~13 moves from the look of it, and decent CPLS algs average ~10 moves. If you were to look at the OCLL+PLL move-count average, or even the OLL+PLL move-count average, then I think you'll be surprised by the closeness. And this even does some F2L!
• 2-Gen algs are a pain to learn; they take me ~150% of the time it takes me to learn a "regular" alg. I figured this out when learning CLS - it's just hard to differentiate between algs.
• 2GLL cases may take a bit to recognize. It's essentially looking for OCLL then EPLL.
• TOAD!
  [*]YOU CAN 2-GEN THE LAST F2L CORNER+LL 1/3 OF THE TIME!
• I'd love to hear responses.

CPLS
2GLL

My unfinished CPLS and 2GLL alg print-ables: .doc .pdf
Right now, I have at least one alg for every 2GLL case (although I've found a few cases that seem to be wrong ) and I have both RH and LH OH algs for -, +, and O cases. I will get to adding I and Im soon, and update this post and the wiki with those.

If you feel anything needs to be or should be added, please say so.

Have fun!
Statue