[Help Thread] Colour Neutral Discussion and Help

[Mirzon]

I am full CN with Roux but I am slow. I suspect if you are Opposite CN already, just stick with that. Since I started out CN with Roux I don't know any different but I can imagine trying to become CN would be difficult and one could focus on other things instead. Just the two cents of a noob.

 

[Ninja Storm]

Bumping, sorry.

Who here is CN with Roux? I mean completely CN.
I can do W/Y for top or bottom, but any other Top and Bottom colors and I totally screw up. As in, 45-60+ times, when I average 32 with WY roux. I'm completely color neutral with CFOP, I don't even think about looking for better color crosses anymore, I just pick the best, no matter what color without thinking. With roux though...
Should I keep practicing, or just stick with Opposite CN?

I'm color neutral with Roux, and I average just under 30. It's not that big of a deal, because I'm not a very visually oriented person(white/black cubes don't matter, I can use almost all color schemes).

 

[Cool Frog]

I am bout 17 seconds and Fully Colour Neutral with Roux.

It isn't such a great advantage as you would think. I think I average about 7 moves for my first block.

 

[Robert-Y]

I average around low 14 and I'm "fully colour neutral" but I almost always need to reorient centres after first block to help me deduce which pieces I need to find for the second block.

 

[cubeandcollect]

I currently am practicing the CFOP method.I know full PLL, a bit of 1-look OLL and solve F2L intuitively.Do you suggest switching back to the LBL method to practice CN??

 

[jeff081692]

I currently am practicing the CFOP method.I know full PLL, a bit of 1-look OLL and solve F2L intuitively.Do you suggest switching back to the LBL method to practice CN??

No way! If you want to be CN just start solving with any color with whatever it is you are using/learning.

 

[cmhardw]

To add something to this conversation I have decided that I am color neutral now.

Today is the first day that I've really had a performance very similar to the performance I had before switching to color neutral.

I took 5 averages of 12 today:

Spoiler

(20.94), 17.48, 14.48, 15.79, 16.41, 18.55, 17.07, 15.60, (13.88), 14.39, 16.10, 13.94 = 15.98

16.43, 14.18, (12.44), 13.03, 13.06, (17.66), 16.42, 17.34, 13.29, 15.95, 15.78, 17.06 = 15.25

13.74, 19.27, (19.44), 15.51, 16.91, 15.16, 14.96, 15.82, 16.05, (12.31), 14.88, 13.44 = 15.57

16.44, 14.88, (13.12), 15.41, 14.64, 14.63, (28.52), 14.89, 14.99, 14.79, 15.66, 15.83 = 15.22

15.34, 13.62, 16.40, 15.84, (18.06), 15.52, 15.57, 14.86, 14.09, (10.74), 16.26, 13.57 = 15.11

I think it's fair to say that I am almost to the point where I was before I switched to color neutral. So all told I'm looking at almost a year (about 11 months) to be fairly comfortable solving on any color.

During F2L now I find myself thinking less and less about cross color and just focusing on pairing pieces. It's a weird feeling, especially since for the longest time I had to remind myself "red cross, red cross, red cross" or whatever color at the start of my solve. It's a very cool feeling, I like it a lot!

I feel like I haven't posted much in the past several months, but it feels cool to finally make an improvement again in my speedsolving! Yay!

 

[Cool Frog]

Today is the first day that I've really had a performance very similar to the performance I had before switching to color neutral.

I took 5 averages of 12 today:

Spoiler

(20.94), 17.48, 14.48, 15.79, 16.41, 18.55, 17.07, 15.60, (13.88), 14.39, 16.10, 13.94 = 15.98

16.43, 14.18, (12.44), 13.03, 13.06, (17.66), 16.42, 17.34, 13.29, 15.95, 15.78, 17.06 = 15.25

13.74, 19.27, (19.44), 15.51, 16.91, 15.16, 14.96, 15.82, 16.05, (12.31), 14.88, 13.44 = 15.57

16.44, 14.88, (13.12), 15.41, 14.64, 14.63, (28.52), 14.89, 14.99, 14.79, 15.66, 15.83 = 15.22

15.34, 13.62, 16.40, 15.84, (18.06), 15.52, 15.57, 14.86, 14.09, (10.74), 16.26, 13.57 = 15.11

I think it's fair to say that I am almost to the point where I was before I switched to color neutral. So all told I'm looking at almost a year (about 11 months) to be fairly comfortable solving on any color.

During F2L now I find myself thinking less and less about cross color and just focusing on pairing pieces. It's a weird feeling, especially since for the longest time I had to remind myself "red cross, red cross, red cross" or whatever color at the start of my solve. It's a very cool feeling, I like it a lot!

I feel like I haven't posted much in the past several months, but it feels cool to finally make an improvement again in my speedsolving! Yay!

Yay! Improvements are fun!

 

[Rune]

Isn´t this the old Achilles and the Tortoise problem? You have now come where you were, when stopped using NCN. But if you had got on with that method, you have quite surely bettered your time by some part of a second. So before crying "yay", you have at least to reach that time. And so on and so on...

 

[Kirjava]

This is why I conjected that switching is not worth it for most.

 

[5BLD]

It takes such a great deal of determination which so few of us have that that statement is probably most of the time true.

 

[cmhardw]

Isn´t this the old Achilles and the Tortoise problem? You have now come where you were, when stopped using NCN. But if you had got on with that method, you have quite surely bettered your time by some part of a second. So before crying "yay", you have at least to reach that time. And so on and so on...

This is why I conjected that switching is not worth it for most.

I agree that switching is probably not worth it for most. My overall at home average-average has hovered around 15.0-15.5 since about 2005 or 2006, and I don't compete at speed solving as seriously as I used to. So for me the thought of switching was a fun thought, and I have certainly enjoyed switching over.

 

[5BLD]

The thing we overlook is the fact that speed is not everything

 

[Rubiks560]

Guess I could post some stuff here.

I've been switching since about October 10th and it seems to be coming along quite nice. Down to a 10.99 AO100. Averaging about 11.3. Normal average before switching was 10.5

 

[teller]

It is definitely a tortoise hare situation. "Not worth it" is usually the rationale given...but if you are going to cube for decades, the investment is TINY. I am alreadly 30 years invested, and this "one year" is nothing to me. I am color neutral for the next 50.

 

[Smiles]

Well I was averaging 19 seconds when I switched, and it took about 2 weeks to learn 3 new colours. Each colour became easier and easier.
White being the first colour, for the second colour I averaged 25 after 50 solves, and 22 after 400.
3rd: 22 -> 20
4th: 20 -> 19

I stopped after that cause I got bored, but I am fully colour neutral now anyway.

As far as practice time over resulting improvement, I'd say it's not really worth it. But I was in a hole and I needed something new to get me back into cubing. I guess you could say colour neutrality is like a different sub-method people experiment with just for fun, like LS subsets and OLLCP subsets. For some people it works, and for more it doesn't. If I wanted speed over time and nothing else, I wouldn't have converted.

But it is really fun to rub in my friends' faces that I'm CN and they're not. Even better when they get like a 3 move cross on red and can't use it.

 

[MichaelErskine]

OK, I have tried the method and have seriously failed. Sucked at all cross colours. Upon returning to white cross I find my times are 20% slower! Didn't work for me - YMMV

 

[Kirjava]

03:06 <+Colourful> RobertY: I have a theory about CN
03:06 <+RobertY> tell me
03:06 <+Colourful> when people say they switch from fixed to CN
03:07 <+Colourful> and they feel like they see associations instead of colour patterns
03:07 <+Colourful> I think they're just still seeing colour patterns, just that they know more patterns
03:07 <+RobertY> yeah
03:07 <+RobertY> maybe
03:07 <+Colourful> if they were doing it by association, they would perform the same on a Jap Scheme
03:07 <+Colourful> and do not
03:07 <+Colourful> qed

 

[Xishem]

Attempting to simultaneously switch to full-CN roux while switching to opposite and adjacent NMB as well, along with hyperorientation of course (I'm using 2-look atm).

Not sure if it's a good idea to try doing both at the same time, but I was never so focused no getting fast at 3x3, so I figured I'd delve into some more advanced variations of roux instead.

I'm about 3 days in, and my times have gone way, way, way up. Before, I was averaging ~20s, and now I'm right around 40s. I think part of it is because I was building my second block really badly with fixed -- if anything, trying CN has let me see a lot of new, different ways to build blocks, ones that I never saw before.

 

[MarcelP]

Ok, I am only three days into the transition. I started after seeing jskyler91's video. It really inspired me. I like cubing a lot, and getting faster is cool but it is not my main concern. Me being 43 years old doesn't help being as fast as most people here anyway.
So I average just sub 30 on white cross (CFOP). I did a Ao50 on yellow cross and got 31 something on the first day. So I decided to skip the few days Yellow training and start right away on green. At first all I got where averages over one minute. The second day I had all avarages around 40 seconds. Today some averages are around 34 - 35 seconds. I had a few sub 30 singles allready. I start to think that switching might be easier than expected. But most of all, it is real fun. It has given me a lot of pleasure to learn something new. So jskyler91 thank you for the inspiration. I will update every now and then on my progress here.