[Help Thread] Beginners Method Discussion thread
Akash Rupela
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I am talking about the case when an edge is unoriented in second layer, In its own position. IF its somewhere else, then there are other things to do.
So You can do 3 things
1. Keep edge in front right slot, do the f2l Alg R U R' U2 R U2 R' U y' R' U' R
2. Solve another edge in a flipped manner adjacent to it (this should just take the normal amount of moves), then keeping them in FL and FR slots, Do F (r U r' U')3 F'
3. If its not the last edge, bring an unsolved corner below it (keep edge in FR slot), do an edge flip algorithm ( R U R' F R' F' R), and then undo the setup move for bringing the corner below it. Of course this would need you to keep one corner unsolved in 1st layer till you are done with 3 edges, and I'd say its a great habit to have such freedom in your style, you can just keyhole most of your edges and save lots of moves.
So You can do 3 things
1. Keep edge in front right slot, do the f2l Alg R U R' U2 R U2 R' U y' R' U' R
2. Solve another edge in a flipped manner adjacent to it (this should just take the normal amount of moves), then keeping them in FL and FR slots, Do F (r U r' U')3 F'
3. If its not the last edge, bring an unsolved corner below it (keep edge in FR slot), do an edge flip algorithm ( R U R' F R' F' R), and then undo the setup move for bringing the corner below it. Of course this would need you to keep one corner unsolved in 1st layer till you are done with 3 edges, and I'd say its a great habit to have such freedom in your style, you can just keyhole most of your edges and save lots of moves.
superslothcuber
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Thank you.. but what exactly is a y' and Dw rotation?
Brest
Moderator
y is a rotation of the whole cube that follows a U turn.
Dw is a "wide" turn of the D and E layers together, the same as doing (U y').
http://tinyurl.com/algyyyyy-y-y-y
I use this one, it can be done pretty fast, also if I recall correctly it is optimal:
R2 U2 F R2 F' U2 (R' U R')
http://alg.garron.us/?alg=R2_U2_F_R2_F-_U2_(R-_U_R-)&animtype=solve
R2 U2 F R2 F' U2 (R' U R')
http://alg.garron.us/?alg=R2_U2_F_R2_F-_U2_(R-_U_R-)&animtype=solve
elrog
Veteran
I`d suggest learning many ways to solve the first half. Knowing more than one way can allow you to take advantage of the situation. Some different ways are: keyhole, F2l, blockbuilding, and psuedo blocks. If you don`t want to jump straight into f2l, and you want to be fast, I`d suggest keyhole. Considering the case you mentioned, if you are fine with a very advanced method to take advantage of the situation, you could use heise method and solve a different corner edge pair that doesn`t go into your free slot in the bottom 2 layers. It is very hard to get fast with the heise method, but given the correct situation, it is extremely useful to know. There is also one more option you could do. You could orient your edges before you start the cross as in the hta method or the zz method. It is done in an average of 4.6 moves and is done intuitively. With all edges oriented you couldn`t have an edge in the right place and needing to be flipped. This, I think is the easiest of the presented choices and learning it would increase your knowledge of the cube and better adapt you to be able to learn a more advanced method. Good luck.
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Dan Brown vs Leyan Lo Beginner Method
I have a Dayan Zanchi, and my current average is 1:15-1:20 and I would like to get below 1 minute.
I learned to solved the cube using Dan Brown's method where the last layer is solved, first with a top cross, then with permuting the edges, then orienting the corners and finally permuting the corners.
Leyan Lo's method seems to follow more the Friedrich method where you first solve the top cross in the last layer and then orient the entire top and then permute the top corners and then the top edges.
My question is, which of these methods would be a better starting point to get faster? I utilize finger tricks (R U R') and have implemented a few algorithms from full f2l to help me get my time down while still doing LBL but I seemed to have reached my terminal velocity and can't get any faster and wonder if had I had learned to solve the cube originally using Leyan Lo's method, I would have more room to grow and expand upon it now.
Thanks
I have a Dayan Zanchi, and my current average is 1:15-1:20 and I would like to get below 1 minute.
I learned to solved the cube using Dan Brown's method where the last layer is solved, first with a top cross, then with permuting the edges, then orienting the corners and finally permuting the corners.
Leyan Lo's method seems to follow more the Friedrich method where you first solve the top cross in the last layer and then orient the entire top and then permute the top corners and then the top edges.
My question is, which of these methods would be a better starting point to get faster? I utilize finger tricks (R U R') and have implemented a few algorithms from full f2l to help me get my time down while still doing LBL but I seemed to have reached my terminal velocity and can't get any faster and wonder if had I had learned to solve the cube originally using Leyan Lo's method, I would have more room to grow and expand upon it now.
Thanks
ben1996123
Banned
leyan lo's.
also this.
also this.
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o2gulo
Veteran
badmephisto plz
I teach my friends this:
Step 1: Orient edges of the last layer, done by applying the algorithm R U R' U' R' F R F'. Number of times it needs to be applied can be from 0 to 3. You use it to move from the case with 0 edges oriented to the case with 2 adjacent edges oriented. From there you use it to move to the case with 2 opposite edges oriented by applying it when the 2 edges are in the right and front position. From there you use it to move to the case with 4 edges oriented by applying it when the 2 edges are in the right and left position.
Step 1 more "advanced": Orient edges of last layer by learning the 4 different cases. Case 1: All edges oriented, you're done. Case 2: 2 edges oriented and they are adjacent to each other. Place them in the right and front position and do the algorithm f R U R' U' f' (lowercase f means do a wide F turn, taking the middle layer, the one between the F and B layer with the F layer when you turn). Case 3: 2 edges oriented and they are across from each other. Place them in the right and left position and do the algorithm F R U R' U' F' (basically like case 2 just with a non-wide turn). Case 4: Simply do case 3 and then case 4.
Step 2: Permute corners, done by applying the algorithm R U' L' U R' U' L U2 which switches the position of the back-left corner with the front-left corner. Number of times it needs to be applied can be from 0 to 2. To know where to use it, just turn the top layer until you find 2 corners in their correct place (there will always be either 2 or 4, if you have 4 you don't need to do anything obviously). Once you find them, they can either be across from each other or adjacent. If they are across, just apply the algorithm and there will be an adjacent pair of correct corners. If they are adjacent, put them on your right and apply the algorithm, that should fix all the corners.
Step 3: Orient corners. The algorithms you need are Sune (R U R' U R U2 R') and Anti-Sune (Either do Sune mirrored which is L' U' L U' L' U2 L or do the inverse of Sune which is R U2 R' U' R U' R). Playing around with only these algorithms will eventually orient the corners. You'll get familiar with all the cases with time, the basic idea is to reach a stage where only one corner is oriented and from there all you need is either Sune or Anti-Sune applied in the correct angle. See how Sune and Anti-Sune affect the orientation of the corners to know what they do so you can use them to orient the corners. You can also solve using just Sune or just Anti-Sune but they are not hard to learn and using them both will get you what you want faster.
Step 4: Now that corners are oriented and permuted, and edges are oriented all we have left to solve the last layer is obviously permute the edges. Here you can solve with just 1 algorithm (which needs to be done 0-2 times if you use it well, 0-3 times if you don't). There are 4 different cases of edge permutation (known as the PLL's Ua, Ub, Z and H). The algorithm is R2 U R U R' U' R' U' R' U R'. What it does is cycle the position of the edges, The left one goes to the right, the right one goes to the front and the front one goes to the left. You can play around with it until the cube is solved.
Step 4 more "advanced": You could also use the inverse of the algorithm from before which is R U' R U R U R U' R' U' R2 to cycle the edges in the other direction, which can sometimes help reduce the move count.
The minimal number of algorithms you need to learn for this way to solve the last layer is 1 for each step meaning only 4 algorithms to solve the last layer.
I have no idea what this way is called but this is how I was taught to solve the last layer.
Step 1: Orient edges of the last layer, done by applying the algorithm R U R' U' R' F R F'. Number of times it needs to be applied can be from 0 to 3. You use it to move from the case with 0 edges oriented to the case with 2 adjacent edges oriented. From there you use it to move to the case with 2 opposite edges oriented by applying it when the 2 edges are in the right and front position. From there you use it to move to the case with 4 edges oriented by applying it when the 2 edges are in the right and left position.
Step 1 more "advanced": Orient edges of last layer by learning the 4 different cases. Case 1: All edges oriented, you're done. Case 2: 2 edges oriented and they are adjacent to each other. Place them in the right and front position and do the algorithm f R U R' U' f' (lowercase f means do a wide F turn, taking the middle layer, the one between the F and B layer with the F layer when you turn). Case 3: 2 edges oriented and they are across from each other. Place them in the right and left position and do the algorithm F R U R' U' F' (basically like case 2 just with a non-wide turn). Case 4: Simply do case 3 and then case 4.
Step 2: Permute corners, done by applying the algorithm R U' L' U R' U' L U2 which switches the position of the back-left corner with the front-left corner. Number of times it needs to be applied can be from 0 to 2. To know where to use it, just turn the top layer until you find 2 corners in their correct place (there will always be either 2 or 4, if you have 4 you don't need to do anything obviously). Once you find them, they can either be across from each other or adjacent. If they are across, just apply the algorithm and there will be an adjacent pair of correct corners. If they are adjacent, put them on your right and apply the algorithm, that should fix all the corners.
Step 3: Orient corners. The algorithms you need are Sune (R U R' U R U2 R') and Anti-Sune (Either do Sune mirrored which is L' U' L U' L' U2 L or do the inverse of Sune which is R U2 R' U' R U' R). Playing around with only these algorithms will eventually orient the corners. You'll get familiar with all the cases with time, the basic idea is to reach a stage where only one corner is oriented and from there all you need is either Sune or Anti-Sune applied in the correct angle. See how Sune and Anti-Sune affect the orientation of the corners to know what they do so you can use them to orient the corners. You can also solve using just Sune or just Anti-Sune but they are not hard to learn and using them both will get you what you want faster.
Step 4: Now that corners are oriented and permuted, and edges are oriented all we have left to solve the last layer is obviously permute the edges. Here you can solve with just 1 algorithm (which needs to be done 0-2 times if you use it well, 0-3 times if you don't). There are 4 different cases of edge permutation (known as the PLL's Ua, Ub, Z and H). The algorithm is R2 U R U R' U' R' U' R' U R'. What it does is cycle the position of the edges, The left one goes to the right, the right one goes to the front and the front one goes to the left. You can play around with it until the cube is solved.
Step 4 more "advanced": You could also use the inverse of the algorithm from before which is R U' R U R U R U' R' U' R2 to cycle the edges in the other direction, which can sometimes help reduce the move count.
The minimal number of algorithms you need to learn for this way to solve the last layer is 1 for each step meaning only 4 algorithms to solve the last layer.
I have no idea what this way is called but this is how I was taught to solve the last layer.
kunparekh18
Veteran
Learn Alan Chang's (www.learn2cube.com) beginner tutorial. THE BEST
ben1996123
Banned
lol, read this and am not reading any further.
F R U R' U' F', 0-2 times.
read my post. practise.
MalusDB
Regular
Well depending on wether you want to stick to a layer by layer method. There is alot to be said for block building methods also. Definitely look into other methods, like Roux for instance, before commiting too much time to a method you may not be suited to. I wish I had started with Roux. But if you want to continue to do LBL then your ultimate goal is probably full CFOP, sometimes called Fridrich Method. If so get on badmephisto! He gives understanding as well as information, great teacher.
qqwref
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Yes, that's a lot closer to how it's done in Fridrich. Assuming you want to learn that eventually.
PS: Permuting anything before orienting it is silly if you ask me, even on a beginner's method.
PS: Permuting anything before orienting it is silly if you ask me, even on a beginner's method.
Please show me how you are planning to orient the edges using only F R U R' U' F' 2 times when there are no edges oriented at all.
Care to explain why permuting before orienting is silly? using the method I described above it works just fine, sune and anti-sune which are what is used to orient have no effect on the permutation, however the algorithm to permute the corners does have an effect on the orientation (it has the same effect as sune on the orientation) so permuting before orienting makes a lot of sense here.
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I can solve the first 2 layers in about 50 second and then it takes me about 30 seconds for the last layer. even if switching to a new method of first completing all yellow on top and then learning 4LL, I still dont think it will get me below 1 minute.
I've tried to optimize my first 2 layers using easy algorithms from f2l but im just to slow
I've tried to optimize my first 2 layers using easy algorithms from f2l but im just to slow
aznanimedude
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you already kinda mentioned it but it's because if you permute before orienting, unless you're specifically using orientation algorithms from the 2GLL subset, you're basically doing an extra step of permuting, then orienting, then fixing the permutation of the pieces caused by your orientation. Better really to just orient first and then permute, 2 steps instead of 3
well i first orient cross (1) permute edges (2) orient corners (3) permute corners (4)
as opposed to orient cross (1) orient corners (2) permute cross (3) permute corners (4)? seems about the same to me.
my concern is last layer aside, im still to slow in the first 2 layers. are there any tricks to get faster at the first 2 layers without going full blown f2l?
I currently place the bottom (white) corners such that each white side faces to the right if looking at the cube with white center on bottom and then using
either R U R' U' R U R' or its reverse to more easily place the middle edge into the middle layer. but having to do 4 bottom corners and then 4 middle edges takes me about 40 seconds. meaning even if i sped up my last layer, i'd still be too slow bc of first 2 layers
as opposed to orient cross (1) orient corners (2) permute cross (3) permute corners (4)? seems about the same to me.
my concern is last layer aside, im still to slow in the first 2 layers. are there any tricks to get faster at the first 2 layers without going full blown f2l?
I currently place the bottom (white) corners such that each white side faces to the right if looking at the cube with white center on bottom and then using
either R U R' U' R U R' or its reverse to more easily place the middle edge into the middle layer. but having to do 4 bottom corners and then 4 middle edges takes me about 40 seconds. meaning even if i sped up my last layer, i'd still be too slow bc of first 2 layers
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