Should 3x3x3 With Feet Remain an Official WCA Event?

[ryanj92]

Just for clarification, most UK comps are two days long and run all day, and can therefore in most cases fit in every event, hence our high record... I'm sure if you calculated '% of comps where event x is held' then the UK would do pretty well all round

I think it needs to be clarified that 'keeping feet solving' does not equate to saying 'you must hold and be exposed to feet solving every comp. you are the only judge and scrambler, have fun'. There are very few competitions which are obligated to hold feet, and in a lot of cases I think it can be arranged that the only people who have to deal with foot cubes are feet solvers themselves (have one group scramble/judge the other), so I think a lot of personal reasons aren't particularly useful in this case.

I think we can agree that feet solving is bizarre, and that provides appeal to some and disgust to others.

 

[DeeDubb]

I think it needs to be clarified that 'keeping feet solving' does not equate to saying 'you must hold and be exposed to feet solving every comp. you are the only judge and scrambler, have fun'. There are very few competitions which are obligated to hold feet, and in a lot of cases I think it can be arranged that the only people who have to deal with foot cubes are feet solvers themselves (have one group scramble/judge the other), so I think a lot of personal reasons aren't particularly useful in this case.

I think we can agree that feet solving is bizarre, and that provides appeal to some and disgust to others.

I totally agree... It's extremely selfish to try to dictate to others based on your own personal feelings when it clearly doesn't affect you. This doesn't just apply to cubing, but life in general.

You don't like feet? Don't compete in it. You think it hurts the image? I think judgmental people hurt the image a lot more.

 

[Richy]

There is a lot of people who like feet, including me. We put a lot of effort in the event and we like it. In my area (Spain) feet is seen by the vast majority of people as a hard event and not as a joke. Like most of the people who deffend feet, I think that feet tend to be cleaner because they are only in contact of the socks and if some people think that no, there is always a posibility of putting some plastic or similar on the timer.
Some people who organise competitions say that they don't like feet. A solution to this: don't add feet in your comp, but at least it's good that we can decide if we have or not feet in the comp ( if feet was removed we couldn't).
Some people may not know that feet is a quite hard event that is difficult to master and being removed will be a loss for a lot of people.

 

[cmhardw]

I like the media attention feet cubing brings, and I think that it is mostly positive.

I have a lot of respect for feet cubers as I have tried feet solving a few times before and I always found it to be difficult.

If organizers don't like it then don't hold the event unless you have to (World/Nats/Euro)? Have separate timers, judges with gloves, etc. for the big tournaments when you do have to hold feet? In my opinion, the hygiene issue has already been solved based on what people have already said. To fix the smell issue you could require sanitary wipes be used by all cubers before their solves, or a wet wipe or something to that effect. Cruise ships require you to use one before eating in the cafeteria/dining room. Why not require them for people competing in feet at our tournaments to reduce the smell in the footcubing area?

One downside to our yearly review system for rules is that every year there is a clamor to remove events. I wish that events being added or removed was decided some way else, either by the board alone based on a previously agreed upon criteria, or every two or three years by community vote.

Having to read the "Let's add/remove events X" every single year feels very inefficient. People have been wanting to be rid of feet for almost 10 years now and this very thread recurs a lot. However, feet still remains so that tells me that more people want feet as an event than want it removed.

If enough people who make the decisions wanted feet to be removed, it probably would have already been removed some point in the last almost 10 years of this debate.

I you really want feet removed, then start talking to WCA delegates or the WCA board. Stop posting here and post on the WCA forum. Asking for feet to be removed on speedsolving.com is obviously not a very effective method to get the feet event removed, based on past data.

 

[TDM]

I you really want feet removed, then start talking to WCA delegates or the WCA board. Stop posting here and post on the WCA forum. Asking for feet to be removed on speedsolving.com is obviously not a very effective method to get the feet event removed, based on past data.

I'd like to note that most community discussion about the Regulations is taking place on the speedsolving.com forum, in a subforum dedicated to the WCA Regulations:

http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?50-WCA-Regulations

While this WCA forum remains the official forum, significantly more community members are participating on speedsolving.com.
The WRC has found it pragmatic start and participate in discussions there instead of here. If you would like to make a comment that others are more likely to respond to, feel free to start or continue a thread at speedsolving.com.

From the WCA's regulations subforum. This was only posted two months ago, so "past data" isn't as relevant.

 

[Tim Major]

I you really want feet removed, then start talking to WCA delegates or the WCA board. Stop posting here and post on the WCA forum. Asking for feet to be removed on speedsolving.com is obviously not a very effective method to get the feet event removed, based on past data.

Not to discredit the rest of your post, but Sarah started this thread and she is involved in adding/removing events with the WCA, so perhaps an internal discussion prompted this thread?

 

[GrandSlam]

Um no, everyone who can solve a Rubik's cube CAN also solve it with their feet. There is nothing new that you have to learn, in addition to your normal method, to be able to solve a cube with your feet.

But to be capable of foot-solving at significant speed? I admit that as long as you can solve a rubiks cube, you can therefore solve with your feet, but it would take a lot of practice to get even close to your time with hands. This is what adds a certain element too it. Just like solving the cube in the first place requires skill and effort, solving with feet requires even more.

Again, I may be wrong and really want to hear from an actual foot-cuber.

 

[Amress]

The point about how feet aren't really dirty is bs. If the ground is so clean, then lick it. Clearly, you have the common sense not to do it. Also, someone brought up that this is an American dominated forum. Keep in mind that in other countries, people walk around barefoot, and it is considered to be normal. However, there are plenty of people who are still fine with scrambling for feet. As long as they wash their hands before scrambling for an event that I'm doing, I would be fine.

 

[michal 1279]

Well however I haven't really trained feet yet (tried it once and was about 8 minutes), I think it should stay as official WCA event.

It's something different and special and I don't think it makes "negative media view". When I showed feet videos to my friends, they said "impressive/amazing" instead of "disgusting".

About the hygienic conditions, to be honest, I was not thinking about it before. Really. I expect people to make their feet clean enough before solving (what if judges can use pincers if they don't feel to touch the cube - then it would look really unprofessional).

So I'm against removing feet from WCA events.

 

[cubizh]

Wow, this thread again.

It’s a good excuse for me to do/update some statistics regarding this event, that some people may be missing, so one can make a more informed judgement about the impact of this event’s removal in the community.

I start with the number of competitors that have participated in all events.

963 different competitors have participated in this event.

Spoiler: Comparison with other events:

I think it is also important to see if the event is growing in popularity or not:

Spoiler: Number of competitions with the event (by year)

Spoiler: Competitions with feet compared to total number competitions (by year)

[TABLE="class:grid,align:left"]
[TR][TD] Year [/TD][TD] Total competitions [/TD][TD] Competitions with Feet [/TD][TD] Percentage [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] 2003 [/TD][TD] 2 [/TD][TD] 0 [/TD][TD] 0.0% [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] 2004 [/TD][TD] 12 [/TD][TD] 1 [/TD][TD] 8.3% [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] 2005 [/TD][TD] 24 [/TD][TD] 6 [/TD][TD] 25.0% [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] 2006 [/TD][TD] 33 [/TD][TD] 7 [/TD][TD] 21.2% [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] 2007 [/TD][TD] 53 [/TD][TD] 8 [/TD][TD] 15.1% [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] 2008 [/TD][TD] 109 [/TD][TD] 17 [/TD][TD] 15.6% [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] 2009 [/TD][TD] 169 [/TD][TD] 24 [/TD][TD] 14.2% [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] 2010 [/TD][TD] 226 [/TD][TD] 34 [/TD][TD] 15.0% [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] 2011 [/TD][TD] 305 [/TD][TD] 68 [/TD][TD] 22.3% [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] 2012 [/TD][TD] 303 [/TD][TD] 85 [/TD][TD] 28.1% [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] 2013 [/TD][TD] 358 [/TD][TD] 115 [/TD][TD] 32.1% [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] 2014 [/TD][TD] 231 [/TD][TD] 56 [/TD][TD] 24.2% [/TD][/TR]
[/TABLE]

Out of curiosity, I leave here the same progression chart for all events.

Spoiler: Number of competitions with events (by year)

I think it is also important to see if the event is attracting new competitors or if no one that is new is caring for the event:

Spoiler: New competitors in Rubik's Cube: with feet (by year)

To have a larger perspective, here is the number of unique competitors (new or not) in feet every year (that is, if a competitor participates in at least one feet event in a year, they are counted as one):

Spoiler: Unique competitors in feet by year

Finally, the competitions that hold feet and how many people participate in them.

Spoiler: Number of competitors in competitions

On average, 6.84 competitors participate in this event at competitions.

 

[cmhardw]

Thank you for these statistics.

 

[Amress]

I want feet to remain as an event, but the argument that 963 people have participated in feet doesn't make much of a difference. There are a lot of people who have participated in feet, but it doesn't mean that they take the event seriously. Similarly, many people participate in OH, but not all of these people take the event seriously and practice consistently.

 

[kunparekh18]

3x3 With Feet is something different, every other event requires the use of your hand. Why remove the event? Different is better, most of the times. I'd be really disappointed if this event would be removed, even though I don't practice it.

At the moment of posting this, there are 69 votes in favour and 69 not in favour of removing feet xD

 

[Username]

elbow - painful to funny bone

Not sure if this is just you, it doesn't hurt for me...

Spoiler

I still wouldn't do it because it takes so long

Spoiler

Also, some people's feet might hurt while doing feet, so maybe it should be removed because of reasons you provided yourself

We all love it!

No, all of us definitely don't... I hate feetsolving myself. The only reason I've participated is for sum of ranks.

Evidence: It is 64 who like to 68 who hate the event. In Brazil, there are definitely more than 4 feet solvers and definitely much less haters than lovers. I just know it. It's obvious. Just look at the amount of comps they have with feet.

Because the entire cubing community consists of 64 people who like feet, 68 people who don't and a few extra brazilians...


E: As far as I know, the only reason we organize feet in Finland (referring to the statistics) is that we have so few competitors that we cant have many rounds of other events. We have a few 2 day comps every year, and during those days we dont want to have much open time, but we want to compete as much as possible. Thus feet is added to fill in some empty time.

 

[Coolster01]

"I just know it. It's obvious." isn't evidence. Brazil isn't the only place that contains people that haven't voted in this poll.



No. Stop being ego-centric and accept that liking feet and disliking feet are equally valid viewpoints. People disagreeing with you are not 'the bad guys', they just have a different viewpoint to you.

KKKKKKKK I get it, my use of language is off by a single word ;( I don't have evidence. The guy from Spain saidthat it's thought of as a tough event and definitely not as a joke. Sorry if accidentally messing up a word ruined your day.

Not sure if this is just you, it doesn't hurt for me...

Spoiler

I still wouldn't do it because it takes so long

Spoiler

Also, some people's feet might hurt while doing feet, so maybe it should be removed because of reasons you provided yourself

No, all of us definitely don't... I hate feetsolving myself. The only reason I've participated is for sum of ranks.




Because the entire cubing community consists of 64 people who like feet, 68 people who don't and a few extra brazilians...

Personally, I think it's just not fair for underweight people with bones jutting out of their elbows. xD

I'm pretty sure nobody's feet hurt during feet except for people who were running a bunch in the last few days (me at Indiana :|). For elbows, it naturally hurts for me anytime of the year. Maybe some people have scabs on their feet, but some people have the same on elbows. Just please, agree with me. I beg of you! I seriously can't think of how feet is painful in a way that elbows isn't. Also, elbows is really hard to judge what body parts shall be used. Just don't add elbows WCA. It doesn't make sense.

 

[GrandSlam]

While I do not actively solve with feet, I really see no reason to mess with it from the evidence I have seen. If it is removed, this thread will just pop up again, only saying that feet should be added.

 

[Ranzha]

I am sorry, but this is a non-argument. At least in Europe the unwritten rules state that you don't have to judge an event you are not competing in. Make 2 groups for feet and there is no problem. I'm sure people competing in feet don't have a problem judging feet as well. If they do then they are a hypocrit and it wouldn't be a problem forcing those people to judge anyway.

That's interesting. Here, we ask people who aren't competing in particular events to judge/scramble/run to lighten the burden on the rest of the non-competing staff.

 

[antoineccantin]

That's interesting. Here, we ask people who aren't competing in particular events to judge/scramble/run to lighten the burden on the rest of the non-competing staff.

Here too

KKKKKKKK I get it, my use of language is off by a single word ;( I don't have evidence. The guy from Spain saidthat it's thought of as a tough event and definitely not as a joke. Sorry if accidentally messing up a word ruined your day.

Personally, I think it's just not fair for underweight people with bones jutting out of their elbows. xD

I'm pretty sure nobody's feet hurt during feet except for people who were running a bunch in the last few days (me at Indiana :|). For elbows, it naturally hurts for me anytime of the year. Maybe some people have scabs on their feet, but some people have the same on elbows. Just please, agree with me. I beg of you! I seriously can't think of how feet is painful in a way that elbows isn't. Also, elbows is really hard to judge what body parts shall be used. Just don't add elbows WCA. It doesn't make sense.

Dear Rami,

I'm on your side, but at this point, you really aren't helping our cause. Please refrain from presenting personal opinions as facts, getting too excited, and please stop making bad comparisons with the elbow solving.

Yours dearly,

Antoine

 

[Username]

That's interesting. Here, we ask people who aren't competing in particular events to judge/scramble/run to lighten the burden on the rest of the non-competing staff.

We do that too, I've never heard of that unwritten rule even though I've been to comps in 2 different european countries

 

[Kirjava]

KKKKKKKK I get it, my use of language is off by a single word ;( I don't have evidence. The guy from Spain saidthat it's thought of as a tough event and definitely not as a joke. Sorry if accidentally messing up a word ruined your day.

Not at all. You misinterpreted my intentions; I sought to not make a semantic argument like you have turned it into, but rather one of conduct. Your behaviour and childish use of apophasis lends itself to you not being taken seriously. Sly jabs at me further devalue your credibility. If you presented your arguments in a valid way people would be more inclined to listen to you. I'm giving you criticism with which you can improve the coherency of your arguments.