[Help Thread] FMC Discussion

[lionheart4417]

lol found the same solution with an other insertion
http://www.speedcubers.de/showthread.php?tid=4572&pid=178815#pid178815

Oh wonderful! Congratulation Linus.
Yesterday I found this and after checking solutions in your forum, Sebastien's solution was the best (29 moves) and I thought I have found the best solution. But today after your post here, I checked again and I saw our solutions are the same. 26 Moves also was found by Moritz.
Nice to see the same solution.
I think both of us find this solution because of our starts. It was a good start really! because of this after finding the start, I understood that I can solve it in less than 25 moves.

I usually check all of the posts and solutions in the forum from sometimes ago, and I love to participate, but I cant understand German, and because of this I try to write my solutions here.
Thank you for introducing the forum to me. I will try to continue participating.

 

[mycube]

Oh wonderful! Congratulation Linus.
Yesterday I found this and after checking solutions in your forum, Sebastien's solution was the best (29 moves) and I thought I have found the best solution. But today after your post here, I checked again and I saw our solutions are the same. 26 Moves also was found by Moritz.
Nice to see the same solution.
I think both of us find this solution because of our starts. It was a good start really! because of this after finding the start, I understood that I can solve it in less than 25 moves.

I usually check all of the posts and solutions in the forum from sometimes ago, and I love to participate, but I cant understand German, and because of this I try to write my solutions here.
Thank you for introducing the forum to me. I will try to continue participating.

Thanks
you are welcome to post your solutions in the forum, too and participate even in english! The most of the members are able to understand it and it's of course accepted to explain your solutions not in german but in english! We are happy to see everyone who is competing in the fmc challenge

 

[lionheart4417]

Thanks
you are welcome to post your solutions in the forum, too and participate even in english! The most of the members are able to understand it and it's of course accepted to explain your solutions not in german but in english! We are happy to see everyone who is competing in the fmc challenge

Oh thank you very much! I will register and try to participate.

 

[mehdi-roshan]

from fmc.mustcube.net, round #472, no time limit


Scramble: B F' U B' D2 R' L2 B U B F' R2 D F2 U D2 R' D U F L D2 F' L U2 R L2 U' D B'



Invers


2x2x3 Block : B' L' F' D U F' U F' U B2 //

Switch to scramble :

All but 4 corners : D F2 R' @ D R D' //(6/6)

Correction: B2 U' F # U' F U' D' F L B //(10/16)

Insert at @ = L' D R D' L D R' D' (8-6 =2/18)
Insert at # = B U' F2 U B' U' F2 U (8-3 =5/23)

final solution:

D F2 R' L' D R D' L B2 U' F B U' F2 U B' U' F' U' D' F L B (23 HTM)

 

[Bhargav777]

Yes of course, for LL I wanted to orient the edges first, and I saw with L2, I can have two pairs (of course 3 pairs after L2 F' L' F). after EO, I find the OLL skip (Actually not skip, It was for Winter Variation). But the PLL was skipped, This skips usually happens if you have pairs at last layers. I usually dont solve like this, because it is hard to find sub-30 with OLL and PLL, but when you have pairs at last layer, it is useful to spend your time for finding OLL SKIP or EPLL most of the time.

Thanks.

BTW if someone could give a good continuation to my post, it would be great. Thanks

 

[lionheart4417]

I found this Bhargav with your starting. (30 HTM)
Your start on scramble: F' D' F D L2 D L' U2 F D F' B' L' B
My premoves on inverse: B2 F D' F' U2 L D' L2 D' F' D F
L3E: B2 L2 B L' D L D' L' B' L'

Solution on inverse: B2 L2 B L' D L D' L' B' L' B2 F D' F' U2 L D' L2 D' F' D F [@]

[@]: F' E F U2 F' E' F U2 I didnt check for Optimal insertion, but this insertion that I use for my BLD solves has 4 canceling (E is D' U (y')) and because I am not good at insertion of edges, I accepted this as my insertion.



Edited: I checked it with IF and it didnt give my insertion, but with Optimal insertion that IF gave, total moves was 30 too.

 

[Sebastien]

1st scramble of this week's German forum competition: R2 D2 F R2 F R2 D2 F' U2 F R2 D' U F' D2 B' U L' B' R2 B2

It doesn't look great at all but turned out to be very nice eventually:

My solution:

Spoiler

EO: B' L
1x2x2+1x2x3: U * B' D F
2x2x2: U2 B'
L3C: D' F R2 F2 U F U' D' F2

* = U' F' U B' U' F U B

Solution: B' L F' U B' U' F U D F U2 B' D' F R2 F2 U F U' D' F2

21 moves.

 

[Bhargav777]

I found this Bhargav with your starting. (30 HTM)
Your start on scramble: F' D' F D L2 D L' U2 F D F' B' L' B
My premoves on inverse: B2 F D' F' U2 L D' L2 D' F' D F
L3E: B2 L2 B L' D L D' L' B' L'

Solution on inverse: B2 L2 B L' D L D' L' B' L' B2 F D' F' U2 L D' L2 D' F' D F [@]

[@]: F' E F U2 F' E' F U2 I didnt check for Optimal insertion, but this insertion that I use for my BLD solves has 4 canceling (E is D' U (y')) and because I am not good at insertion of edges, I accepted this as my insertion.



Edited: I checked it with IF and it didnt give my insertion, but with Optimal insertion that IF gave, total moves was 30 too.

Thanks a lot

 

[okayama]

Does anyone have a scramble of Dutch Open 2013?
Looks a hard scramble judging from the results, and so I'm curious.

If anyone has other hard scrambles (both official/unofficial), please share the scrambles here.
Some official scrambles that Guus posted as hard ones:

• Dutch Open 2009
• Dutch Nationals 2011
• Eindhoven Spring 2013

(I already tried the 1st one, but not 2nd/3rd yet)

EDIT: Thanks Guus, I'll try it later.

 

[guusrs]

Does anyone have a scramble of Dutch Open 2013?
Looks a hard scramble judging from the results, and so I'm curious.

If anyone has other hard scrambles (both official/unofficial), please share the scrambles here.
Some official scrambles that Guus posted as hard ones:

• Dutch Open 2009
• Dutch Nationals 2011
• Eindhoven Spring 2013

(I already tried the 1st one, but not 2nd/3rd yet)

FMC Dutch open 2013 scramble: R B D2 R B2 R L F U2 F2 L' D R2 U B2 D R2 U' B2 R2

Pretty nasty scramble for me and many others. At 40min a thought I found a sub 30 solve with premoves R B D2 and then after scramble F' U2 (3+2, 2x2x2 + pairs)
but in next 20 minutes I failed to reproduce it )-;

 

[lionheart4417]

1st scramble of this week's German forum competition: R2 D2 F R2 F R2 D2 F' U2 F R2 D' U F' D2 B' U L' B' R2 B2

It doesn't look great at all but turned out to be very nice eventually:

My solution:

Spoiler

EO: B' L
1x2x2+1x2x3: U * B' D F
2x2x2: U2 B'
L3C: D' F R2 F2 U F U' D' F2

* = U' F' U B' U' F U B

Solution: B' L F' U B' U' F U D F U2 B' D' F R2 F2 U F U' D' F2

21 moves.

Very nice!
I found B' L and B' L' as staring too, but I couldnt continue it for sub 30! So I left it and started with F U L R2 F2.
I solved this scramble in 29 moves.

 

[conn9]

I got this scramble while 3x3ing:
D F2 R U B2 R B U' F' U2 F2 D' F2 U2 L2 U2 B2 U F2 R2

I've got no experience with FMC, so I wondered how you guys fared with it. Maybe it's more useful for Roux than FMC.

 

[okayama]

Discussion on how to decide a champion in FMC:

As discussed in Mean of N for FMC, (kind of) mean is desirable for determining a rank than best results.
I think no one disagree with it (mean is desirable, if possible).

I'd like to discuss on a slightly different situation: for example, if we have a time to hold 2 attempts for FMC,
how should we choose a winner under the current regulation?

In view of existing results of Worlds, Euro, US Nationals and so on, the format was "Best of 2".
But, there is another choice: "Best of 1 as a first round, and Best of 1 as a final" like Java FMC Cube Day 2010.
I think, this choice is better than a simple "Best of 2" for selecting a FMC champion.

One of big frustrations in the Best of 2 format is that "Just one lucky solve automatically leads to victory".
But if we divide 2 FMC attempts as first round and final, one lucky solve is not sufficient to win. Of cource,
winners have to pass the first round with at least safe/mediocre solve, but this is not an unreasonable thing.

In local competitions, Best of 2 may be preferable in order that competitors as many as possible can
do FMC attempts and set good records. But in big competitons to decide a champion (like Worlds, Euro, ...),
I think "Best of 1 as a first round, and Best of 1 as a final" works better than Best of 2.

I'm not sure the proper thread to submit this post, so just submit here to share this opinion with FMC guys.

 

[Tim Major]

3 attempt, 30 minutes per solution, median taken?

One hour isn't really feasible. Or time limit for 3 solutions? Allowed to just attempt 2 and obviously have a DNS/DNF

 

[guusrs]

Hi Tomoaki,
It's still a game.
If you want the best to be a winner, take 100 solves, elimiate best and worst 5 en get mean of 90.
But this doesn't fit into a competition format and the number of participants will be low!

But best of 1 solves can result in an unexpected winner. It will make the competition more fun and a more of competitiors will join!

For worlds ie we probably want a more official result, for example
1st round: best of 2
final: 2 solves
ranking: eliminate best and worst solve of all rounds, result = mean of 2 solves

But other formats are possible:
- 1 round of 1 hour with 3 scrambles
- when 1 solve entered result = #moves
- when 2 solve entered result = (sum of 2 solves -5)/2
- when 3 solve entered result = (sum of 3 solves -15)/3
And you can make historical rankings compatible with this format

 

[Mike Hughey]

Tomoaki,

I'm not sure why no one else has chimed in to agree with you. But I do agree with you - it seems like it would give a somewhat better result to do two rounds of Best of 1 than to do one round of Best of 2. Then you'd have to go for a "decent" result in the first round; there would be some strategy involved in calculating what you think is a "safe" solve, and a few of the best people might not be very good at doing, say, 35-move safety solves, since all they ever practice for is sub-30. Still, I suspect most of the "regularly sub-30" people could get good pretty quickly at always having a sub-35 safety solve, and you'd think that even for championships that would probably be enough to get you to the second round. I think there's real merit in your idea. Of course, even better would be Best of 1 first round, Best of 2 final, if you could afford the time.

I do also agree that having single Best of 2 rounds is better for giving people chances for records, though.

 

[kinch2002]

I still think that mean of x rounds are preferable to multiple best of 1 rounds.

And I agree that best of 2 doesn't really improve on best of 1 at major champs. It should either be a mean of 2/3, or a multiple round format as suggested

 

[Mirek]

Hi FMC lovers,

Did anybody beside me notice that we missed an opportunity to set a what-would-be an "all time unbreakable unofficial record"? The FMC #474 scramble was very unusual position that had 15-move solution. The probability that a random scramble can be solved in 15 moves is about 0.2%. Guus was very close (13 moves away) to finding it after he correctly identified 2 pre-moves D2 B2. Not only that, the optimal solution for 474 scramble does not break corner-edge pairs nor does it break new pairs that are put together during the solve. This means that finding this optimal solution was within our reach.
Here is the optimal solution,
D2 L B D' B2 D L' F D2 F D B R2 D2 B2 (15 HTM)

Mirek

 

[okayama]

Hi FMC lovers,

Did anybody beside me notice that we missed an opportunity to set a what-would-be an "all time unbreakable unofficial record"? The FMC #474 scramble was very unusual position that had 15-move solution. The probability that a random scramble can be solved in 15 moves is about 0.2%. Guus was very close (13 moves away) to finding it after he correctly identified 2 pre-moves D2 B2. Not only that, the optimal solution for 474 scramble does not break corner-edge pairs nor does it break new pairs that are put together during the solve. This means that finding this optimal solution was within our reach.
Here is the optimal solution,
D2 L B D' B2 D L' F D2 F D B R2 D2 B2 (15 HTM)

Mirek

During 1-hour solve, I felt that this should be an easy scramble and other guys also would find a decent solution.
But I didn't expect that UWR (17-move) could be broken...

FMC474 Scramble: B' D R U2 D2 L' R' U D R F B' L F2 R' F2 R' L B R' B F2 D' U' F' R F R2 B2 U'

If you find the premoves R2 D2 B2, you may find the solution as

Spoiler

Premoves: R2 D2 B2

5 c/e pairs: (ready)
Preserve c/e pair: D2
1st square: L B D'
2nd square: B2 D L'
3rd square: F
All: D2 F D B
Premoves correction: R2 D2 B2

but at least I could not find the crucial 3-move premoves.
(I understood that D2 B2 makes 2 c/e pairs and R2 compensates pseudoness, though)

EDIT: interpretation on the inverse scramble:

Spoiler

c/e pair: B2
c/e pair: D2
something: R2
1st square: B'
2nd square: D' F' D2
3rd square: F'
4th square: L D'
All: B2 D B' L' D2

 

[Cubenovice]

Hasselt open 2013

FMC scrambles

1st scramble: R2 F D2 L' F B' U R' U' F2 R' U L2 D' R2 F2 D L2 D2
2nd scramble: D2 L F' B' R B U2 D R2 U' L F' R2 B D2 R2 F2 R2 L2 D2 L2

Spoiler: My first 1st attempt

scramble: R2 F D2 L' F B' U R' U' F2 R' U L2 D' R2 F2 D L2 D2
inverse: D2 L2 D' F2 R2 D L2 U' R F2 U R U' B F' L D2 F' R2

on inverse
(premove U) F' B U2 R' F - 2x2x3 minus corner - 6
or
(premove D') F' B U2 R' F U D - 2x2x3 with flipped edge - 8
I spend way too much time on these two without good results so basically my attempt was over...

Then in the last two minutes I just freestyled of the initial start
on inverse
(premove U) F' B U2 F2 R' where the F2 is an insertion
F' R F' R'
F' D2 F2 L F' L2 D L' D - leaves 2C2E - 19
I did not write this down as I was freestyling but after the official attempt I managed to reconstruct in two tries.
Oh well: there was no time for an insertion anyway...

Spoiler: My 2nd attempt:

scramble: D2 L F' B' R B U2 D R2 U' L F' R2 B D2 R2 F2 R2 L2 D2 L2
inverse: L2 D2 L2 R2 F2 R2 D2 B' R2 F L' U R2 D' U2 B' R' B F L' D2

U - pseudo square (find premove F') - 2
(F') U R' F' L D' R' B' D' - 2x2x3 - 9
B' move inserted for better continuation
switch to inverse

(D B R D L' F R U') F - 2x2x3 - 9
D' R' D R2 - F2L - 13
U B R B' R' U' - leaves 4 corners

switch to normal / correct premoves for easier insertion-hunting:
U R' F' L D' . R' B' D' U R B R' B' U' R2 D' R D : F'
at . insert D R D' L2 D R' D' L2 to cancel 2 moves
at : insert D' F' D B' D' F D B to cancel 2 moves

final solution:
U R' F' L R D' L2 D R' D' L2 R' B' D' U R B R' B' U' R2 D' R F' D B' D' F D B F'

Initially I wrote down a 33 htm safety solve where I just added 2 commutators at the end.
In the very last seconds I finished writing down the 31 htm solution, including the insertions / cancellations on the fly, then crossed out the safety solve.

Lets say I was very, very relieved when Zoé informed me that my solution was correct
But quite frustrated when IF showed me the optimal insertions resulted in 27 HTM...

Can someone please have a look for a better continuation of my 13 move F2L?