[Help Thread] ZZ and ZB Discussion

[antoineccantin]

Is it worth it to learn COLL for OH ?

Yes.

 

[RR]

Yes.

Thanks for the link. But why is it only 30 cases ?

 

[Suratha]

Thanks for the link. But why is it only 30 cases ?

He hasn't included the COLL cases for sune and anti-sune. Because the OCLL for sune and anti-sune is faster for OH than COLL.

 

[RR]

He hasn't included the COLL cases for sune and anti-sune. Because the OCLL for sune and anti-sune is faster for OH than COLL.

Cases 29 and 30 is Sune and anti-sune

 

[Suratha]

Cases 29 and 30 is Sune and anti-sune

Those cases are OCLL for sune and anti-sune which are also included in COLL.Read the comment he has written for cases 29 and 30.

 

[ravenguild08]

How many turns does it typically take for EOLine? And do you always use the same two edges as your Line (e.g. the WB and WG edges) or do you also use WR and WO or any color you want?
I ask because in this thread, it's mentioned that EOLine can be solved in 6.127 moves on average, but that seams reallyyy low

 

[Suratha]

How many turns does it typically take for EOLine? And do you always use the same two edges as your Line (e.g. the WB and WG edges) or do you also use WR and WO or any color you want?
I ask because in this thread, it's mentioned that EOLine can be solved in 6.127 moves on average, but that seams reallyyy low

It takes around 7 moves to solve the EO line.Optimal EO lines are sometimes hard to get. See this video and you can get an
idea of y-axis colour neutrality in ZZ: www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK8OHiktZSs

 

[RR]

Those cases are OCLL for sune and anti-sune which are also included in COLL.Read the comment he has written for cases 29 and 30.

Oh sorry i didn't notice. so if I would to use sune and anti-sune OCLL what PLL should i learn ?

 

[Suratha]

Oh sorry i didn't notice. so if I would to use sune and anti-sune OCLL what PLL should i learn ?

If you can,learn full PLL otherwise just use 2-look PLL now and then you can switch to 1-look PLL while you are averaging around 40-45 seconds or may be lower.

 

[ravenguild08]

Oh sorry i didn't notice. so if I would to use sune and anti-sune OCLL what PLL should i learn ?

I think the strategy of skipping those 12 COLL cases is so that you can use the very fast sune and antisune to lead into all 21 PLLs. I would recommend learning the other 17 PLLs, which are worth knowing anyway.

 

[RR]

I think the strategy of skipping those 12 COLL cases is so that you can use the very fast sune and antisune to lead into all 21 PLLs. I would recommend learning the other 17 PLLs, which are worth knowing anyway.

Thanks. I already know 10 of them. But it's not good with OH. I think i need to learn the PLL algs for OH

Edit : What's the differece of ZZF2L in ZBF2L ?

 

[Suratha]

Thanks. I already know 10 of them. But it's not good with OH. I think i need to learn the PLL algs for OH

Here is a OH PLLs playlist by asmallkitten(Phil Yu): www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9E85BF924D67980C‎
Learn OH algs from this playlist videos.He is also teaching how he recognizes those cases and execution of algs from different angles.

Edit: What's the difference of ZZF2L in ZBF2L ?

ZBF2L: Inserting the last pair of F2L while orienting the last layer edges.
ZZF2L: Second step of ZZ method where after solving the EO Line,you will solve the F2L using L,U and R moves to solve the F2L.

 

[RR]

Here is a OH PLLs playlist by asmallkitten(Phil Yu): www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9E85BF924D67980C‎
Learn OH algs from this playlist videos.He is also teaching how he recognizes those cases and execution of algs from different angles.

ZBF2L: Inserting the last pair of F2L while orienting the last layer edges.
ZZF2L: Second step of ZZ method where after solving the EO Line,you will solve the F2L using L,U and R moves to solve the F2L.

Thanks for the info

 

[brian724080]

I'm also a ZZ solver, I used to use CFOP, but I changed recently. I'm already getting sub 30 times with less than 3 hours of practice, the EOLine isn't as hard as I thought it would be.

 

[elrog]

When doing OH 3x3, ZZ is the best method in my opinion. It has been asked many times earlier in this thread weather you should complete one 1x2x3 block completely before moving on to the next one. For TH, I don't think it matters that much, but for OH it is easier to do one block before the other.

I like to start with the left block. After doing the EO line, the first thing I do is get all of the pieces that go in the left block out of the places where the right clock goes using R and U moves. This keeps you from having to do more z rotations than are necessary, while also making the first blocks pieces easier to find. An easy way to recognize if a piece is part of the left block is to check if it has the left color on it and not the top color. If it fits these requirements, it is part of the left block and should not be where the right block goes.

Does anyone else do this at all?

 

[mDiPalma]

Does anyone else do this at all?

Yes. When we initially applied this mentality to ZZ-Porky, we called this the "isolation" substep. It's legit.

 

[ZZer]

Hello... Hello...
I still wonder why there is no Lau or Zemdegs of ZZ/ZB method... Is he already born?
Im starting to doubt of this method...
Do you also have much more moves in speedsolving than in theory? This is what makes me doubt...

Greetings

 

[uvafan]

Hello... Hello...
I still wonder why there is no Lau or Zemdegs of ZZ/ZB method... Is he already born?
Im starting to doubt of this method...
Do you also have much more moves in speedsolving than in theory? This is what makes me doubt...

Greetings

Most agree that ZZ is better for OH than it is for 2H. Phil Yu uses ZZ and is one of the top OH cubers in the world. The <R,U,L> reduction is favorable for OH, but perhaps not as much for 2H. And as for how efficient we actually are, I think that I am slightly more efficient than the average CFOP user in speedsolves based on reconstructions, but just by something like 3-4 moves.

 

[brian724080]

Most agree that ZZ is better for OH than it is for 2H. Phil Yu uses ZZ and is one of the top OH cubers in the world. The <R,U,L> reduction is favorable for OH, but perhaps not as much for 2H. And as for how efficient we actually are, I think that I am slightly more efficient than the average CFOP user in speedsolves based on reconstructions, but just by something like 3-4 moves.

I thing the edge orientation and line at the start really helps the solve. Personally I think this means fewer algs. I'm planning to learn COLL/PLL, that's only 56 algs compared to about 80 algs with OLL/PLL. I would definitely prefer mastering the EOLine and using a few more moves to learning 25 extra algorithms. Also, OCLL and PLL is decent too.

 

[ZZer]

The hardest thing in ZZ solve is made optimal first block after EO.
This is the part of the solve which makes me sad...
Which pieces do you tracking during EO ?