[Help Thread] ZZ and ZB Discussion

Nilsibert said:
I've read a lot of this thread, but I'm not sure if this was discussed greatly or just a little: In which order do you usually do the F2L? Whatever's best at the moment? I'm trying hard not to develop a bias towards blocks nor pairs in the beginning. At the same time, it seems to make sense to start out with a block, then solve its pair because half of the time you can use the free side to set up an easy 3 move insert or an easy pair. On the other hand, having a side fully solved can lead to bad block cases. For example if I have a block made with the cross piece and the corner, and the edge it pairs up with is next to it, separating and solving them can take a lot of moves because I'm restricted to one side to use for hiding pieces.
Also, whenever I time myself, which is quite rare, I'm lost during F2l because it's so many pieces to consider, and I waste many great cases because I don't realize them. ZZ is great fun to learn and practice though and I'm so happy I finally had the guts to switch to it and "throw away" the practice I needed to finally get sub 20 with CFOP, but it seems it will take quite a long time to get good with it. I'll keep practicing because even if I feel my solves are really bad and inefficient, I'm still sub 30 or even sub 25 half the time :)
Click to expand...

I do one of the 1×2×2 blocks first, then either the other block or the pair. It doesn't matter what side you do first; I do whatever pair or block I see first.
 
Hey guys, does anyone have any tips for remembering what pieces need to be oriented in the first step? Let's say i have 6/8 edges, i have trouble remembering where they are.
 
Don't try to just remember where they are. Remember the hand motion required to fix them.

For example, if you have bad edges at UF LF, DF, and UR, just memorize the distinct R' F hand motion. This will orient the 4 bad edges.

Then, think how the REST of your bad edges would be affected, after you solve the first set. Plan a second hand motion to fix these. Perhaps something like x' F L U' x.

Eventually, you will be able to plan an orientation for all the bad edges in ~1 second of inspection time. At this point you have to start looking for EOLines that positively affect the line edges (or even place them at DF and DB).
 
mDiPalma said:
Don't try to just remember where they are. Remember the hand motion required to fix them.

For example, if you have bad edges at UF LF, DF, and UR, just memorize the distinct R' F hand motion. This will orient the 4 bad edges.

Then, think how the REST of your bad edges would be affected, after you solve the first set. Plan a second hand motion to fix these. Perhaps something like x' F L U' x.

Eventually, you will be able to plan an orientation for all the bad edges in ~1 second of inspection time. At this point you have to start looking for EOLines that positively affect the line edges (or even place them at DF and DB).
Click to expand...
Ah, ok. Thanks for the tips. Funny how i think EO-line is the easiest step, and i'm sub 25 with CFOP :3
 
Nilsibert said:
I've read a lot of this thread, but I'm not sure if this was discussed greatly or just a little: In which order do you usually do the F2L? Whatever's best at the moment? I'm trying hard not to develop a bias towards blocks nor pairs in the beginning. At the same time, it seems to make sense to start out with a block, then solve its pair because half of the time you can use the free side to set up an easy 3 move insert or an easy pair. On the other hand, having a side fully solved can lead to bad block cases. For example if I have a block made with the cross piece and the corner, and the edge it pairs up with is next to it, separating and solving them can take a lot of moves because I'm restricted to one side to use for hiding pieces.
Also, whenever I time myself, which is quite rare, I'm lost during F2l because it's so many pieces to consider, and I waste many great cases because I don't realize them. ZZ is great fun to learn and practice though and I'm so happy I finally had the guts to switch to it and "throw away" the practice I needed to finally get sub 20 with CFOP, but it seems it will take quite a long time to get good with it. I'll keep practicing because even if I feel my solves are really bad and inefficient, I'm still sub 30 or even sub 25 half the time :)
Click to expand...

Way back, Cride calculated stats showing that solving F2L in any order was the most move efficient...so that's what I do. Although, I'm sure a case could be made for faster turn speeds and easier recognition when focusing on one side at a time.
 
makssl6911 said:
Hey guys, does anyone have any tips for remembering what pieces need to be oriented in the first step? Let's say i have 6/8 edges, i have trouble remembering where they are.
Click to expand...

I use my fingers to keep track of the bad edges, especially when there are more than six. Once I've found all of them, I can usually hold an image of them in my mind that is good enough for planning edge orientation and tracking line edges. For some reason, I can't really construct that image of bad edges "on the go". I have to know where all of them are first, hence the fingers.

Oh, and I construct blocks in whatever order seems most efficient during a speedsolve. I prefer completing one block before moving to the other, but I don't always see the pieces that are needed, and they aren't always situated efficiently.
 
I'm having trouble finding good COLL algs :/ I learned the H cases pretty fast, the algs I found are awesome imo. Right now I'm trying to learn the Pi cases, but I can't seem to find good algs. Many are awkward and don't seem finger trickable. I looked at the database and Boca and I'm curious; are some of the algs just pretty bad because there aren't any really good ones? Or did I miss how to perform them so they're fast?
Any ideas on what would be the best ones in your opinion?
 
When I learned COLL I just used the ones on the sheet at kungfoomanchu. I trust BOCA though so depending on the alg I could tell you which one I use/would use on BOCA and how i execute it
 
Hey guys im a 16.73 ZZ solver. ZZ is my main method. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrhvLa2haqc6iTfV_ad8-MQ
If you dont believe me, theres my youtube ch I just started.
I have a few BASIC questions regarding COLL. My past aof 100, about 1/2 of the OLL was COLL. I know that it should've been around 3/4 of the OLL would be COLL, but the problem was that I did the reg OLL instead of a COLL our of pure habit. Anyone know a better way of identifying at VARIOUS angels? The Button COLL algs that use the variation of the headlights OLL and hard to tell from various angels. If anyone has a tip that would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
 
If you actually want to learn COLL for 2H solving (I advise against it), give yourself a DNF everytime you do the OLL instead of the COLL. That will force you to slow down and recognize the color pattern more thoughtfully.

It's called negative reinforcement, and it's worked for thousands of years.
 
Sahnguini said:
Hey guys im a 16.73 ZZ solver. ZZ is my main method. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrhvLa2haqc6iTfV_ad8-MQ
If you dont believe me, theres my youtube ch I just started.
I have a few BASIC questions regarding COLL. My past aof 100, about 1/2 of the OLL was COLL. I know that it should've been around 3/4 of the OLL would be COLL, but the problem was that I did the reg OLL instead of a COLL our of pure habit. Anyone know a better way of identifying at VARIOUS angels? The Button COLL algs that use the variation of the headlights OLL and hard to tell from various angels. If anyone has a tip that would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Click to expand...

Learn to ID the case while only looking at 2 sides (front and right for example). No need to recognize from various angles.
 
Hello any link for a good COLL please ? The one that is easy to understand. Thanks
 
Suratha said:
Try some algs from the site and if suits you,then you can use those algs..What is your average in OH now??
Click to expand...

2mins 30seconds I just started yesterday and i'm using 2look oll and 2look pll for the LL. I'm thinking what should be my LL of my ZZ. COLL or WV ? Which is the best LL method for OH ?
 
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