[Help Thread] FMC Discussion

[BQ]

Oh, thanks for letting me know.
I didn't think that 2*2-cycle could be used in that case: 3 cycle of corners and 1 twisted corner in place.

oops. i didn't notice the actual case. just treated it as a normal 2*2-corner cycle. i don't have any good idea to deal with 4 corners with 1 twisted, except inserting 2 3-corner cycles. Guus made a good solution!

 

[TheDubDubJr]

I recently did a 4x4 FMC with a couple friends. It was my first time doing 4x4 FMC and I got 91. I believe slice turns counted as 1 move like r.

http://tinyurl.com/algBDw-R2BwF-D

B Dw' R2 Bw F' D' Rw' D2 Rw // (8/8) Red & Orange Centers

R2 Dw' F' Dw2 F2 Uw' L' Uw2 R2 Uw' R' Uw2 F2 Uw' // (14/22) L4C while preserving an edge

y' U L Uw' D' R D R2 D2 R F' D2 F Uw // (12/34) 6 Edges Paired

B D Bw L F' L' D F D' Fw' // (10/44) Remaining 5 Edges

L R2 U F' R F2 B R' D' B R' B R2 B' R' // (15/59) X-Cross + 2nd & 3rd F2L(with flipped corner)

z2 B' R B' R' B R B' R' z // (8/67) 4th F2L

L U R' U R U2 L' B' // (8/75) ELL

U' L' U R U' L U R' // (8/83) Comm with flipped corner

L' D' L U2 L' D L U2 // (8/91) Finishing Comm

 

[Ranzha]

Ohai Walker! =D
That 91 was ridiculous. I got a 94 =)

So I found a 10-move skeleton to this scramble, but I found no really good finish. Is there anyone who can help?

F U2 R2 B' D2 L2 B2 R2 B R2 F' L' F2 D L U F' L2 R' U' R2
Premove: B
Skeleton: F' R U D' L' U' B' D' R D2

 

[mycube]

Use the insertion finder:

The Scramble：F U2 R2 B' D2 L2 B2 R2 B R2 F' L' F2 D L U F' L2 R' U' R2
Your Skeleton：F' R U D' L' U' B' D' R D' B

2 corner 3-cycle(s) and 2 edge 3-cycle(s) insertion(s) needed
F' R [@1] U D' L' U' B' D' R D' B
Insert at @1: F2 U D' L2 U' D
After the 1st insertion: F' R F2 U D' L U' B' D' R D' [@2] B
Insert at @2: R F R' F' B U F' U' F B'
After the 2nd insertion: F' R F2 U D' L U' B' D' R D' [@3] R F R' F' B U F' U' F
Insert at @3: B R F R' B' R F' R'
After the 3rd insertion: F' R F2 U D' L U' B' D' R D' [@4] B R F R' F' U F' U' F
Insert at @4: L B R' B' L' B R B'
Fewest moves: 25. 18 moves cancelled
The final solution: F' R F2 U D' L U' B' D' R D' L B R' B' L' B R2 F R' F' U F' U' F

 

[Ranzha]

Use the insertion finder:

The Scramble：F U2 R2 B' D2 L2 B2 R2 B R2 F' L' F2 D L U F' L2 R' U' R2
Your Skeleton：F' R U D' L' U' B' D' R D' B

2 corner 3-cycle(s) and 2 edge 3-cycle(s) insertion(s) needed
F' R [@1] U D' L' U' B' D' R D' B
Insert at @1: F2 U D' L2 U' D
After the 1st insertion: F' R F2 U D' L U' B' D' R D' [@2] B
Insert at @2: R F R' F' B U F' U' F B'
After the 2nd insertion: F' R F2 U D' L U' B' D' R D' [@3] R F R' F' B U F' U' F
Insert at @3: B R F R' B' R F' R'
After the 3rd insertion: F' R F2 U D' L U' B' D' R D' [@4] B R F R' F' U F' U' F
Insert at @4: L B R' B' L' B R B'
Fewest moves: 25. 18 moves cancelled
The final solution: F' R F2 U D' L U' B' D' R D' L B R' B' L' B R2 F R' F' U F' U' F

Sweet Jesus... Thank you! I lost the link I had for it. Where can I find the Insertion Finder now?

 

[mycube]

http://mf.qiyuuu.com/cube/if.cube

i'm not sure if anyone could find this optimal insertions but it's crazy stuff

 

[Ranzha]

http://mf.qiyuuu.com/cube/if.cube

i'm not sure if anyone could find this optimal insertions but it's crazy stuff

My solution:
Premove: B
F' R U D' L' U' B' D' R // mega NM blox
D2 // ADF
D R (R' D' R' D' R D R D R D') D F2 U F' D' F U' (F2 R F B' D2 F' B R F2) F2 R' // Optimal COLL with edge insertions
B // match

Final: F' R U D' L' U' B' D' R D2 R' D' R D R D R F2 U F' D' F U' F2 R F B' D2 F' B (30f)

 

[kinch2002]

Anyone care to finish this one?
[21:02] <kinch2002> ,3fmc
[21:02] <+Nibblr> 3x3 Scramble #24166: U F' B2 U2 L2 U R D L' D2 B D2 L F2 D L F B L' B2 D' B' R' B2 R2

2x2x3: B' U L2 U L' D2 L
Switch to inverse with premoves B L' D2 L U' L2 U' B (the extra B corrects the pseudo F2L)
F2L: B2 U B U B' U B2 (15)

 

[okayama]

Anyone care to finish this one?
[21:02] <kinch2002> ,3fmc
[21:02] <+Nibblr> 3x3 Scramble #24166: U F' B2 U2 L2 U R D L' D2 B D2 L F2 D L F B L' B2 D' B' R' B2 R2

2x2x3: B' U L2 U L' D2 L
Switch to inverse with premoves B L' D2 L U' L2 U' B (the extra B corrects the pseudo F2L)
F2L: B2 U B U B' U B2 (15)

My 7 min attempt with your premoves:

F2L minus 1 slot: B2 U' B2
More square: U B' U B
More c/e pair: U
More c/e pair: L
More c/e pair: U2 *
All but 3 c/e pairs: L'
Correction: B L' D2 L U' L2 U' B

Insert at *: L Uw' R' Uw L' Uw' R Uw (or Uw B Uw' F' Uw B' Uw' F)

27 moves.

 

[okayama]

Hi Bruce, thank you for your feedback.
Too bad there is no info on Heise as I was really wondering how having to work with one open slot would compare to the larger freedom in Petrus.


And now for something competely different:
I put three commutators into a commutator

fmc.mustcube.net Round: 328 sorted by htm
Scramble: D2 F' B2 R2 F L U' D B2 L R D U2 B R2 D' F D2 R' L D R U2 F2 R2 L' D2 L2 F U2

@ R' L2 B2 R' B' L2 leaves 5 edges and 4 corners
I just had to try this with comm.
insertion extravaganza:
At @ insert D § R' U' # R D' R' U R to cancel two moves R-R'
At § insert U2 R D R' U2 R D' R' to cancel one move R'-R'
At # insert U' + D B2 D' U R2 to cancel two moves U'-U' and R2-R
At + B' L R2 U' D B2 U D' L' B Aarghh could not find a good insertion for these last three edges...
These BL set up moves for the last three edges cost me a 29 move PB

D U2 R D R' U2 R D' R' R' U' U' B' L R2 U' D B2 U D' L' B D B2 D' U R2 R D' R' U R R' L2 B2 R' B' L2
=
D U2 R D R' U2 R D' R2 U2 B' L R2 U' D B2 U D' L' B D B2 D' U R' D' R' U L2 B2 R' B' L2 33 HTM

Not very efficient I know but I couldn't resist the urge to try...

Insertion Finder did the job:

2 corner 3-cycle(s) and 2 edge 3-cycle(s) insertion(s) needed
R' L2 B2 [@1] R' B' L2
Insert at @1: D' F D [@2] R' L B' D' [@4] B R L'
Insert at @2: L B' R' B [@3] L' B' R B
Insert at @3: R' U' R U R L' B' R' B L
Insert at @4: R2 B L' B' R2 B L B'
Fewest moves: 22. 20 moves cancelled
The final solution: R' L2 B2 D' F D L B' R' B R' U' R U B' D' R2 B L' B' R2 L2
Runtime: 93468.1 milliseconds
​

Almost impossible to find for human beings.

 

[Sebastien]

I should definitely look in here more often.

Sébastien is amazing. He got Sub 29 (from Austrian Open 2012 to Saarland Open 2012)!
27, (DNF), 27, 29, 28, 26, 29, 29, 32, 29, 29, (25) = 28.5

Thanks

You got a better overall year statistic though. 12 sub30s out of 20 attempts, resulting in a median of 29 and a mean of 29.5, amazing.

After a very bad start this year I got 18 sub30s out of 36 attempts, leaving me a median of 29.5. As I tend to rage-DNF when not finding anything very close to 30 there is no mean for me.

Mean without DNFs is 29.26, but that doesn't mean too much. Counting all DNFs as 35 I get 30.2.

 

[Tong Haiwu]

Re: ShengShou Megaminx

I wonder what's the meaning of "pre-scramble",and why do it?

 

[Noaphiel]

This was my first FMC-attemp in my life, i just started learning the theory a few days ago. If anyone would mind to finish my start I would be glad . I found a very nice start and tried alot to finish this, but only got a terribad solution. I would be glad if someone would take a try after F2L-1.

Scramble: D B2 D U2 L2 D2 F' U2 D' F D F L U2 D2 F2 D L' F2 D B2 F' L2 U R2

Start:
R U' L' F * L' - 2x2x2 [5/5]
D' F2 R D' R' D2 L' F' L - F2L-1 [9/14] (i'm happy until this point)

Rest of my solution :
F R' F R U F U' R' F R F' - all but L5C [11/25]
Insert at *: F2 L B' L' F2 + L B L' [8-2/31]
Insert at +: F' U F D2 F' U' F D2 [8-1/38]

(InsertionFinder got 6 moves cancellation as optimal, but that would still be only 35moves)

 

[kinch2002]

No particular reason for posting this, other than that it's a decent attempt

[21:17] <+MLSTRM> ,3 fmc
[21:17] <+Nibblr> 3x3 Scramble #24253: B2 R U B F2 U D F B' U' R D2 R D F2 B2 D F2 U' L' R' D' U R L2

F' makes a square on normal scramble, so use premove F and scramble inverse
Inverse Scramble: L2 R' U' D R L U F2 D' B2 F2 D' R' D2 R' U B F' D' U' F2 B' U' R' B2
2x2x3: R2 L2 U2 L2 D L2
Pseudo F2L: R B' R' U' B2
To correct the pseudo-ness, use premoves B2 U' F, scramble inverse, and do those 2 steps above.
Now a FULULF then a sune solves the LL to give 28 moves

 

[coldsun0630]

um... excuse me but what is "all but 3(or 4) corners"?
i can see that on tomoaki's solution but i can't understand..

 

[mycube]

try it and it's easy. It's solved except those corners

 

[Brest]

Walker asked me how I would do an FMC solve on this scramble:

R' U2 R' U2 L2 D2 R' D2 R F L R2 B2 D B' L B U'

Spoiler: Solution

The flipped edge is bad, so look for a pseudo block for the 1x2x2 rather than trying to flip. Maybe use the inverse scramble, either to find the pseudo or after making the pseudo.
Flipping the edge to make a 2x2x2 is 5 moves, so unless you do something else at the same time you're not taking advantage of the 1x2x2 block.
There are 3 edges that make a pseudo 2x2x2.
WB is 4 moves + 1 premove so it's no better than fixing the flipped edge.
YB: U B2 L premove (L')
WG: B' U2 L' premove (L)

expanding on the WG start:

(L) // premove
B' U2 L' // 2x2x2
B' D R B R' // 2x2x3
B D2 // 1x2x2
B D' B2 R' B' R (*) // leave 2e2c (lol Vperm)
L // add premove
http://tinyurl.com/algB-U2L-2x2x2B

* insert Vperm
x2 R' U R' d' R' D R' D' R2 F' R' F R F x2 // 2 moves cancel
=
B' U2 L' B' D R B R' B D2 B D' B2 R' B' D R' D' F' U F' U' F2 R' F' R F R L (29)

-*-*-*-

alternative progression:
(L) // premove
B' U2 L' // 2x2x2
B' D2 B2 D B' // pseudo F2L-1 (find additional premove B')
R' F2 U F U' F R // EO & leave 4 corners
B' L // add premoves
http://tinyurl.com/b8yc7cx
=
B' U2 L' B' D2 (@) B2 D B' R' F2 U F (#) U' F R B' L

insert at # [F, U' B U] // 3 moves cancel
insert at @ [D F D', B2] // 5 moves cancel
=
B' U2 L' B' D' F D' B2 D F' B' R' F2 U F2 U' B U F' U' B' F R B' L (25)

 

[brandbest1]

Walker asked me how I would do an FMC solve on this scramble:

R' U2 R' U2 L2 D2 R' D2 R F L R2 B2 D B' L B U'

Spoiler: Solution

The flipped edge is bad, so look for a pseudo block for the 1x2x2 rather than trying to flip. Maybe use the inverse scramble, either to find the pseudo or after making the pseudo.
Flipping the edge to make a 2x2x2 is 5 moves, so unless you do something else at the same time you're not taking advantage of the 1x2x2 block.
There are 3 edges that make a pseudo 2x2x2.
WB is 4 moves + 1 premove so it's no better than fixing the flipped edge.
YB: U B2 L premove (L')
WG: B' U2 L' premove (L)

expanding on the WG start:

(L) // premove
B' U2 L' // 2x2x2
B' D R B R' // 2x2x3
B D2 // 1x2x2
B D' B2 R' B' R (*) // leave 2e2c (lol Vperm)
L // add premove
http://tinyurl.com/algB-U2L-2x2x2B

* insert Vperm
x2 R' U R' d' R' D R' D' R2 F' R' F R F x2 // 2 moves cancel
=
B' U2 L' B' D R B R' B D2 B D' B2 R' B' D R' D' F' U F' U' F2 R' F' R F R L (29)

-*-*-*-

alternative progression:
(L) // premove
B' U2 L' // 2x2x2
B' D2 B2 D B' // pseudo F2L-1 (find additional premove B')
R' F2 U F U' F R // EO & leave 4 corners
B' L // add premoves
http://tinyurl.com/b8yc7cx
=
B' U2 L' B' D2 (@) B2 D B' R' F2 U F (#) U' F R B' L

insert at # [F, U' B U] // 3 moves cancel
insert at @ [D F D', B2] // 5 moves cancel
=
B' U2 L' B' D' F D' B2 D F' B' R' F2 U F2 U' B U F' U' B' F R B' L (25)

for the alternate approach, how do you add a premove within the solution?

 

[Brest]

for the alternate approach, how do you add a premove within the solution?

Solve the cube and re-start with the additional premove.

 

[TheDubDubJr]

Walker asked me how I would do an FMC solve on this scramble:

R' U2 R' U2 L2 D2 R' D2 R F L R2 B2 D B' L B U'
=
B' U2 L' B' D' F D' B2 D F' B' R' F2 U F2 U' B U F' U' B' F R B' L (25)

So Good Brest