[Help Thread] FMC Discussion

[Cubenovice]

Don't feel like sticklering for cycles but here's what can be done at the end

L' F2 L B' L' F2 L B solves a corners and breaks out the twisted one
But it does not leave a nice cycle

the alternative is D L D' R2 D L'. D' R2 which leaves an 8 mover
but a quick peek reveals that I can insert L' U' L D L' U L D' at . to cancel 2 moves

The B' D B D B' D B D part in your solution could be a good spot for the 1st insertion but I am too lazy to check.

 

[okayama]

My winning solve from Kanto Winter 2012

Scramble: F2 U' L2 D B2 L2 U' L D' B' U' F' L2 F' R2 F2 D2 B R2 U'
Solution: F U' L2 U F L' U' B2 R B R' B F2 U F L' R2 D' L D R2 D' L' R' B2 R' F2 U' (28 HTM)

Spoiler

30 min backup solution.

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: L F' U' L2 U F'

c/e pair: U
2x2x2 block: F2 R B2 R D *
F2L minus 1 slot: L F' U' F2
All but 3 corners: B' R B' R' B2 U
Correction: L F' U' L2 U F'

Insert at *: D' L D R2 D' L' D R2

 

[kinch2002]

F' U L F2 R F' L' U' F R' F2 U L2 F' R F2 L2 U2 R U' L U' R' F' U L F L' U2 F'
The most blocks I've ever seen on a scramble
I was about to do some OH, but this was the first scramble that appeared so I had to FMC instead.

F2L: R' F' U F R L' F R U' R2 (10)
LL: R B' R' B U2 B U2 B' (17 moves)

Found this other 10 move F2L as well: L' F R U' R2 L F' U F L'

Although FM UWR is kind of meaningless, I was wondering what the lowest anyone has got on a proper 3x3 scramble that was meant for them is? By 'meant for them', I mean either it was part of a FM competition or they generated it themselves.
As people generally don't count speedsolving PBs when someone else hands them an easy scramble they got, I think passing scrambles on shouldn't really be counted in FM either

 

[Julian]

F' U L F2 R F' L' U' F R' F2 U L2 F' R F2 L2 U2 R U' L U' R' F' U L F L' U2 F'
The most blocks I've ever seen on a scramble

wtf
There's nothing not part of a block.

 

[okayama]

My winning solve from Hokuriku Eve Open 2012

Scramble: L2 B2 F2 R U2 L F2 L' F2 D2 R' B L F' D F' R2 D' R' D2
Solution: U' L' U L F' U' R2 L2 B2 F D' F' U' F D B2 U R U' R' U2 B' U B U2 F' U (27 HTM)

Spoiler

2x2x3 block: U' L' U L F' U' R2 L2
F2L minus 1 slot: B2 * U' B2
OLL algo: F U R U' R' F'
All but 3 corners: F U2 B' U B U2 F' U

Insert at *: F D' F' U' F D F' U

I believe this scramble has a great potential to achieve a short solution.
I expected Sub 25 during the solve but I couldn't find such a solution.

I hope you guys will try it and would like to see what can be done to this scramble.

EDIT: recent official average of 12: (27), 29, 28, 32, 31, (34), 27, 29, 30, 31, 28, 27 = 29.2 a little bitty improvement

 

[okayama]

F' U L F2 R F' L' U' F R' F2 U L2 F' R F2 L2 U2 R U' L U' R' F' U L F L' U2 F'
The most blocks I've ever seen on a scramble
I was about to do some OH, but this was the first scramble that appeared so I had to FMC instead.

F2L: R' F' U F R L' F R U' R2 (10)
LL: R B' R' B U2 B U2 B' (17 moves)

Found this other 10 move F2L as well: L' F R U' R2 L F' U F L'

Although FM UWR is kind of meaningless, I was wondering what the lowest anyone has got on a proper 3x3 scramble that was meant for them is? By 'meant for them', I mean either it was part of a FM competition or they generated it themselves.
As people generally don't count speedsolving PBs when someone else hands them an easy scramble they got, I think passing scrambles on shouldn't really be counted in FM either

Now I have a time, and tried the scramble. awesome.

Here is my 10 min solution, 16 moves:

Spoiler

Pre-scramble: L' U F

Orient edges: U F' L' F
Expand block: R U'
More square: R2 F2
F2L minus 1 slot: L F2
All: R U R'
Correction: L' U F

Furthermore I found the following 15-move solution in 40 min:

Spoiler

(Inverse)
More square: U F' U'
More square: F
More square: R2 U F'
F2L minus 1 slot: L F R' F'
All: F' L F L' U'

I solved the inverse scramble, but the final solution on the given scramble:
U L F' L' F2 R F' L' F U' R2 F' U F U'
is reasonably understandable.

By the way, I quote the statement from the wiki, which may answer your question.

The best known unofficial result (using a properly scrambled cube) is 18 moves in Weekly Competition 2012-20 by Guus Razoux Schultz.

Of course this time's scramble is not a proper one.

AFAIK, Sub 20 solutions (for a proper scramble) in 1-hour have been found only three times so far.

• Mirek Goljan (19 moves)
• Guus Razoux Schultz (19 moves)
• Guus Razoux Schultz (18 moves)

 

[guusrs]

My winning solve from Hokuriku Eve Open 2012

Scramble: L2 B2 F2 R U2 L F2 L' F2 D2 R' B L F' D F' R2 D' R' D2
Solution: U' L' U L F' U' R2 L2 B2 F D' F' U' F D B2 U R U' R' U2 B' U B U2 F' U (27 HTM)

Spoiler

2x2x3 block: U' L' U L F' U' R2 L2
F2L minus 1 slot: B2 * U' B2
OLL algo: F U R U' R' F'
All but 3 corners: F U2 B' U B U2 F' U

Insert at *: F D' F' U' F D F' U

I believe this scramble has a great potential to achieve a short solution.
I expected Sub 25 during the solve but I couldn't find such a solution.

I hope you guys will try it and would like to see what can be done to this scramble.

EDIT: recent official average of 12: (27), 29, 28, 32, 31, (34), 27, 29, 30, 31, 28, 27 = 29.2 a little bitty improvement

Hi Tomoaki: on the Hokuriku Eve scramble I got:
F' U' F D L D R' D L D' B D' R F2 B2 L D R D' L D R F2 B2 L2 U' (26)
F2L: F' U' F D L D R' D L D' B D' R' (13)
L4C: R2 F2 B2 L D R D' L D R F2 B2 L2 U' (26)
No time left for insertions, but 12 move for 4 corners is not bad either. One of the few CLL-4C algs I know.
When starting with the obvious 3-move-2-block start (L F' U') I did not found a good continuation. Not even with inserted moves. The cube seems to be in a "wrong" state or something. But do "wrong" states exists? And how to recognize them?
After 45min of struggling I tried non-obvious starts resulting in this nice 13 move F2L.

awesome competition average Tomoaki. Is this the best ever? How did Sebastien this year?
PS. I have DNF too much to have an average at all.

 

[okayama]

Hi Tomoaki: on the Hokuriku Eve scramble I got:
F' U' F D L D R' D L D' B D' R F2 B2 L D R D' L D R F2 B2 L2 U' (26)
F2L: F' U' F D L D R' D L D' B D' R' (13)
L4C: R2 F2 B2 L D R D' L D R F2 B2 L2 U' (26)
No time left for insertions, but 12 move for 4 corners is not bad either. One of the few CLL-4C algs I know.
When starting with the obvious 3-move-2-block start (L F' U') I did not found a good continuation. Not even with inserted moves. The cube seems to be in a "wrong" state or something. But do "wrong" states exists? And how to recognize them?
After 45min of struggling I tried non-obvious starts resulting in this nice 13 move F2L.

awesome competition average Tomoaki. Is this the best ever? How did Sebastien this year?
PS. I have DNF too much to have an average at all.

Nice skeleton with 4-corners-left! Quite a similar situation to the WR (13-move skeleton with 4-corners-left).
I'd like to see the optimal insertion for that, but Insertion finder doesn't seem to work currently.

I also investigated L F' U' start, and just got 30-move backup solution with that.

Sébastien is amazing. He got Sub 29 (from Austrian Open 2012 to Saarland Open 2012)!
27, (DNF), 27, 29, 28, 26, 29, 29, 32, 29, 29, (25) = 28.5

 

[Username]

I decided to try FMC, so i took this scramble: U' L' F' U2 L D' L U L U2 D' B2 U' F2 B2 D' L2 D F2 D (just took something from the easy scrambles thread)

And got this:

L2 E' L' B (4)
U2 R' U' R U B U B' (12)
F U F' L2 U2 L2 U2 S U2 S' (22)
L' U L U F U' F' (29)
M2 U M2 U2 M2 U M2 (36)


I also found a 5 move XX-cross: E' d' R2 B R, but i can't find a good continuation. This is my best FMC ever. Any tips?

 

[brandbest1]

I decided to try FMC, so i took this scramble: U' L' F' U2 L D' L U L U2 D' B2 U' F2 B2 D' L2 D F2 D (just took something from the easy scrambles thread)

And got this:

L2 E' L' B (4)
U2 R' U' R U B U B' (12)
F U F' L2 U2 L2 U2 S U2 S' (22)
L' U L U F U' F' (29)
M2 U M2 U2 M2 U M2 (36)


I also found a 5 move XX-cross: E' d' R2 B R, but i can't find a good continuation. This is my best FMC ever. Any tips?

I'm pretty sure inner slice moves count as 2 moves.

 

[Username]

I'm pretty sure inner slice moves count as 2 moves.

Then it wasn't as good as i think it was

 

[okayama]

I decided to try FMC, so i took this scramble: U' L' F' U2 L D' L U L U2 D' B2 U' F2 B2 D' L2 D F2 D (just took something from the easy scrambles thread)

And got this:

L2 E' L' B (4)
U2 R' U' R U B U B' (12)
F U F' L2 U2 L2 U2 S U2 S' (22)
L' U L U F U' F' (29)
M2 U M2 U2 M2 U M2 (36)


I also found a 5 move XX-cross: E' d' R2 B R, but i can't find a good continuation. This is my best FMC ever. Any tips?

My quick attempt:

2x2x2 block: D
More square: U' L' U' L' F' L'
More square: F2
F2L minus 1 slot: L2 F L' F
All but 3 corners: U2 F' U2 B' U F U' B U'
Corner 3-cycle: U L U' R' U L' U' R

27 moves, but it can be shorter if you find a good insertion for the last corner 3-cycle.

Alternative finishes after the start:

F2L minus 1 slot: L2 F L' U F
All but 3 corners: B' U2 B U B' U B

F2L minus 1 slot: L2 F L' U2 F
All but 4 corners: U F' U2 F


Another attempt on inverse:

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: D'

2x2x2 block: (ready)
c/e pair: U L
2x2x3 block: F' L2 U2 F'
F2L minus 1 slot: L' F' L' F L'
All but 4 corners: L' U L U2
Correction: D'

 

[cubernya]

Is it just me, or is IF not working? I've tried it in Chrome and Safari and got nothing

 

[okayama]

Is it just me, or is IF not working? I've tried it in Chrome and Safari and got nothing

The same is true for me.
I already said the problem in this post.

 

[BQ]

Nice skeleton with 4-corners-left! Quite a similar situation to the WR (13-move skeleton with 4-corners-left).
I'd like to see the optimal insertion for that, but Insertion finder doesn't seem to work currently.

I also investigated L F' U' start, and just got 30-move backup solution with that.

Sébastien is amazing. He got Sub 29 (from Austrian Open 2012 to Saarland Open 2012)!
27, (DNF), 27, 29, 28, 26, 29, 29, 32, 29, 29, (25) = 28.5

something was wrong with it. i've fixed it now.

Is it just me, or is IF not working? I've tried it in Chrome and Safari and got nothing

it's fixed now!

 

[okayama]

it's fixed now!

Thanks so much!
And it turns out that Guus' solution on the Hokuriku Eve scramble is better than the optimal two insertions... wow...

EDIT: I tried the technique: ``insert a commutator that doesn't solve any piece but just cycle unsolved pieces with many cancels'', which were used in my solve at FMC300 and also used by Sébastien in the official solve.

Scramble: L2 B2 F2 R U2 L F2 L' F2 D2 R' B L F' D F' R2 D' R' D2
Guus' skeleton (all but 4 corners): F' U' F D L D R' D L D' * B D' R' U2

Insert at *: D L' D' R D L D' R'

gives a new 13-move skeleton:

All but 4 corners: F' U' F D L D2 L # D' R' B D' R' U2

Insert at the beginning: U B2 U' F' U B2 U' F
Insert at #: B2 D' F2 D B2 D' F2 D
(found by insertion finder)

24 moves in total, finally Sub 25.

 

[brandbest1]

So insertions are for when you find a skeleton (let's say a corner 3-cycle) and rather than solving it at the end, you insert it into the solution for a chance at cancellations?

 

[mycube]

correct.

 

[BQ]

And it turns out that Guus' solution on the Hokuriku Eve scramble is better than the optimal two insertions... wow...

yeah. 4-corner cycle is always better. the IF support it by checking corner 2*2-cycle on. just see this

 

[okayama]

yeah. 4-corner cycle is always better. the IF support it by checking corner 2*2-cycle on. just see this

Oh, thanks for letting me know.
I didn't think that 2*2-cycle could be used in that case: 3 cycle of corners and 1 twisted corner in place.