[Unofficial] Haiyan Zhuang 3x3 BLD 30.47

[andyzhangdayu]

CCA rule are exactly the same as WCA ones!

 

[Zava]

CCA rule are exactly the same as WCA ones!

then what is the point of having CCA as well?

but, just to clarify why he said that: CCA stands for Chinese Cubing Association, right? so it is not a worldwide organisation, it is a national organisation, therefore you can't set world records there, only national records. the same as with, let's say... you don't call a European Formula-Renault champion a world champion, because that is not a world series. yet you do call a Formula-1 champion a world champion, as it IS a world series.

 

[TimMc]

A WR cannot be set in a CCA competition.

Sorry about the confusion. You are correct. I was just quoting "30.47 WR" from a Chinese friend.

It should be clear that the WCA wont recognise the results of a CCA competition until WCA regulations are adhered to and a WCA delegate is present. However, this result wouldn't be recognised even if it were the case due to a ban that's currently in place on Zhuang Haiyan by the WCA.

With China having a population greater than Europe and America combined, CCA would regard it as a WR. That's their choice, and they respect their own regulations and the integrity of their officials.

Similarly, Guinness would require officials to be present and for their regulations to be adhered to for their WRs to be broken too.

So, yeah... it's fairly safe to assume it's not a WCA WR whenever CCA or Guinness are the ones officiating at the competition as that would be their respective WR.

Tim.

 

[Radu]

CCA rule are exactly the same as WCA ones!

1. How do you prove that?
2. If they are the same, how do we know they are followed exactly if there is no WCA delegate?
3. What Zava said.

 

[TimMc]

CCA stands for Chinese Cubing Association, right? so it is not a worldwide organisation, it is a national organisation, therefore you can't set world records there, only national records.

You can't just assume that "CCA" meaning "Chinese Cubing Association" restricts their records to China, take "Guinness" for example, for the sake of proving someone wrong. Someone could assert that CCA are trying to replace the WCA as a worldwide body.

On the other hand this WR would be recognised if the CCA were recognised by a worldwide body (i.e. WCA) by conforming to the parent body's regulations. Similar to how the IOC recognises the IAAF which recognises the AAA. The Asian Athletics Association itself just represents Asia but their athletes don't have to wait around until the Olympic Games to break world records. That would be like waiting around for WCA World Championships to break world records. Their results are recognised by the IOC because the IOC respects the IAAF and the IAAF respects the AAA.

Tim.

 

[qqwref]

With China having a population greater than Europe and America combined, CCA would regard it as a WR.

I don't understand what you are trying to say at all here. And why'd you choose Europe and the USA? Are there no good blindsolvers in other parts of Asia, or in Oceania, or in Latin America, who might care about this issue?

Someone could assert that CCA are trying to replace the WCA as a worldwide body.

Yeah, they could, but they'd look pretty dumb. I doubt the other 4/5 of the world are going to happily submit their records to an organization which is so clearly biased towards China.

The Asian Athletics Association itself just represents Asia but their athletes don't have to wait around until the Olympic Games to break world records. That would be like waiting around for WCA World Championships to break world records.

Maybe it would be like waiting around for Worlds to break a record. But if everyone else has to do that, it's not fair that people from a certain country get more attempts just because of their country. What if Haiyan started attending one CCA competition every weekend, with 3 full rounds of BLD?

 

[masterofthebass]

then what is the point of having CCA as well?

but, just to clarify why he said that: CCA stands for Chinese Cubing Association, right? so it is not a worldwide organisation, it is a national organisation, therefore you can't set world records there, only national records. the same as with, let's say... you don't call a European Formula-Renault champion a world champion, because that is not a world series. yet you do call a Formula-1 champion a world champion, as it IS a world series.

In the US, we call our baseball/football winners "World Champions" and I do think that they can be considered the best in the world.

 

[Olivér Perge]

In the US, we call our baseball/football winners "World Champions" and I do think that they can be considered the best in the world.

Haha.That's a good one. They are really good but you cannot state that for 100% unless you let them compete.

Take NBA for example: (I know you didn't list NBA there, but the same thing is true for them too.) After winning their NBA title, the so called World Champion Los Angeles Lakers got beaten by the Barcelona. I know, I know, it was home court and one match only, and Barcelona would fail hard in a whole season in the NBA, but still.

 

[TimMc]

Hi Michael,

I don't understand what you are trying to say at all here. And why'd you choose Europe and the USA?

I chose Europe and America.

Are there no good blindsolvers in other parts of Asia, or in Oceania, or in Latin America, who might care about this issue?

You can find the rankings here.

Yeah, they could, but they'd look pretty dumb. I doubt the other 4/5 of the world are going to happily submit their records to an organization which is so clearly biased towards China.

If they were asserting themselves as a worldwide body on par with the WCA then they'd be appointing CCA delegates worldwide and welcoming records from anyone in compliance with their regulations.

Maybe it would be like waiting around for Worlds to break a record. But if everyone else has to do that, it's not fair that people from a certain country get more attempts just because of their country.

Yeah, it's not fair. That's why I using AAA as an example of WRs being recognised by the IAAF. I think Dan said it best with his baseball analogy.

What if Haiyan started attending one CCA competition every weekend, with 3 full rounds of BLD?

He'd be a very happy man I'd imagine.

Kind Regards,
Tim.

 

[cmhardw]

In the US, we call our baseball/football winners "World Champions" and I do think that they can be considered the best in the world.

Yes, and I hate this. I :fp so hard every time I hear our national champions regarded as world champions in this way. No wonder the rest of the world hates us, our national champions usurp the rest of the world by default! :fp

 

[ElectricDoodie]

Yes, and I hate this. I :fp so hard every time I hear our national champions regarded as world champions in this way. No wonder the rest of the world hates us, our national champions usurp the rest of the world by default! :fp

This. When I was younger, I couldn't wrap my head around the fact that the World Series only consisted of the US and Canada.

 

[qqwref]

I chose Europe and America.

Oh, okay, I assumed you meant the USA because that was the only way your statement made sense. The combined population of Europe and the Americas is actually greater than the population of China.

If they were asserting themselves as a worldwide body on par with the WCA then they'd be appointing CCA delegates worldwide and welcoming records from anyone in compliance with their regulations.

I'm sure they would do that, yes. And similarly I can write up regulations and welcome any QQCA-official competitions, no matter where they are in the world. (If you're wondering: there's only one delegate, me. And all competitions need a delegate. And delegates may compete.) Doesn't mean people will respect it as an organization that speaks for all cubers.

He'd be a very happy man I'd imagine.

You missed my point, which was that other people wouldn't be.

 

[andyzhangdayu]

The point to have CCA is to have more chinese cubers competing whilst most of them don't have chance to attend WCA competitions. We have many cubers that you can't imagine in China. It's easy to have over 100 attendants for each competition in most of the cities even 1 competition held every weekend, however, WCA is unable to satisfy them all, short of resources. Haiyan and his partners (most of them are volunteers) try their best (money from their own pockets) to organise CCA to provide chances for those cubers.

I agree that we "don't call a European Formula-Renault champion a world champion". It can classify 1st, 2nd and 3rd places, but a record or a score is different. (I never say it was a WR!) Can an athlet break a world record in Commonwealth games? I mean can this record be recognized as WR? Of couse yes!

 

[Olivér Perge]

I mean can this record be recognized as WR? Of couse yes!

I disagree. From our point of view, this solve was as official as a home made attempt. Do we call home made attempts WRs? Of course we don't. Yeah, it was similar to a WCA compeititon, they even claim to have the same ruling, but it's not the same.

For a non-cuber, sure it can be a WR, just like a GWR can be a WR for them too in any category, in any sports.

Respect to all the chinese volunteers, who try to satisfy chinese cubers, I'm pretty sure WCA would try to handle the problem too if it wasn't for that incident with Haiyan Zhuang. I don't look at CCA as an opponent to WCA, it's a free world, anyone can organize comopetitions.

 

[andyzhangdayu]

I disagree. From our point of view, this solve was as official as a home made attempt. Do we call home made attempts WRs? Of course we don't. Yeah, it was similar to a WCA compeititon, they even claim to have the same ruling, but it's not the same.

For a non-cuber, sure it can be a WR, just like a GWR can be a WR for them too in any category, in any sports.

Respect to all the chinese volunteers, who try to satisfy chinese cubers, I'm pretty sure WCA would try to handle the problem too if it wasn't for that incident with Haiyan Zhuang. I don't look at CCA as an opponent to WCA, it's a free world, anyone can organize comopetitions.

1, Sorry, you misunderstood! The record I mentioned at last was a record got from Commonwealth game. I said: I never say it was a WR!!!!!

2, I didn't blame WCA AT ALL!!!!!!!

3, Not all country can hold world cup or world champion but they can have their own league.

 

[Olivér Perge]

1, Sorry, you misunderstood! The record I mentioned at last was a record got from Commonwealth game. I said: I never say it was a WR!!!!!

2, I didn't blame WCA AT ALL!!!!!!!

3, Not all country can hold world cup or world champion but they can have their own league.

Sorry, my bad! *taking english class*

 

[qqwref]

We have many cubers that you can't imagine in China. [...] however, WCA is unable to satisfy them all, short of resources. Haiyan and his partners (most of them are volunteers) try their best (money from their own pockets) to organise CCA to provide chances for those cubers.

The people who organize WCA competitions are volunteers too, and they make competitions where they live in order to provide chances for local cubers to compete. If you have the resources/money to organize 20 CCA competitions per year, you could also organize 20 WCA competitions per year (20 could be any number). I'm sure the WCA board will accept many competitions in China and add many new Chinese delegates, if you just show them how many Chinese cubers there really are.

As far as Haiyan, I think the ruling does not allow him to compete, but still allows him to organize competitions himself, if he wants to. (Please correct me if I'm wrong about this.) So I don't see why the Chinese cubers who wish to have more competitions can't work with the WCA to accomplish this. I know Haiyan wants to compete too, but I think it will only hurt Chinese cubers if a large number of non-WCA-official competitions are held.

 

[andyzhangdayu]

Things are not as easy as what you think. We are working on having more games under WCA! Still in progress.

Forget about the 30.47 "WR" or "CWR", forget about the arguements. Things I am trying to say:

1, Haiyan is banned, that's true. But Haiyan is a nice person, generous. There are stories hidden behind the incident that people seldom know. What people heard from WCA is not always true;
2, Haiyan doesn't give up practising, he is still one of the best 3X3 BLD fold cubers in the world.

 

[r_517]

I'm sure they would do that, yes. And similarly I can write up regulations and welcome any QQCA-official competitions, no matter where they are in the world. (If you're wondering: there's only one delegate, me. And all competitions need a delegate. And delegates may compete.) Doesn't mean people will respect it as an organization that speaks for all cubers.

Exactly. that's why lots of threads joking on holding various-CA competitions on mf8 these months

Also, I strongly disrespect an organisation whose members were always spreading fake information and opposing foreigners yet calling their records "W"Rs.

Sorry, my bad! *taking english class*

You definitely need to come to England to *learn English* this year

 

[masterofthebass]

Yes, and I hate this. I :fp so hard every time I hear our national champions regarded as world champions in this way. No wonder the rest of the world hates us, our national champions usurp the rest of the world by default! :fp

Well, the NFL and MLB are both include international players, and I don't think that anyone can argue that they aren't the best league in the world in their respective sports, so I can see why the winning teams would be considered to be World Champions.