Dayan vs. V-Cube Patent Infringement

[PhillipEspinoza]

To clarify: I don't consider it a flaw. Or at least not ebay's fault. It's not ebay's job to play judge and decide what's legal to be sold,

I see. It may not be their job to judge and decide what's legal, just like it's not WCA's job to decide what's legal but it certainly says something to their credibility. I consider it good customer service to make sure members get treated fairly and not unjustly. I mean, I don't think it's technically part of their "job" but if it becomes a big enough problem then they will suffer for it as people will go elsewhere. And techincally it's not anyone's job to run the WCA but I will assume you mean responsibility. However, I still think your comparison is in itself flawed:

just like it's not WCA's job to play judge and decide what's legal to be played.

3k) Puzzles must be approved by a judge before use in the competition.

WCA does indeed judge and decide what's legal to be played. That's why there are WCA regulations saying that certain cubes that are transparent or greatly modified to enhance performance for example are not allowed in competitions in the interest of fairness. It's not WCA's "job" to ensure fairness but in order to ensure credibility so that others do not start up their own organization or association, it is in the WCA's (and also the Community's) best interest that the WCA has policies that ensure fairness. That's what gives WCA legitimacy. To give a better understanding of what I'm trying to say, here's an example.

If it were the case that any random WCA cuber can accuse another cuber of cheating, without evidence or reason to back it up, and therefore cause a ban on the accused cuber until it's settled, there would be upset in the Community (justifiably so), especially if the cuber were a top cuber. Say this happened to Faz before he even got a chance to break the World Record. I think, even though it's not technically the WCA's job to make sure people are honest in their cheating claims that it would be wrong for the WCA to ban Faz without looking at proof or taking other measures to ensure that the cheating claim is a valid one. If the WCA had a VeRO equivalent, then I'm sure it's credibility would go down as people would know that the WCA would not be entirely representative of World Cubing if it allowed the best cubers to be banned by anyone's ungrounded complaint. I would even go so far as to say it would be a flaw in the WCA regulations.

But as Dan pointed out Ebay is more concerned with themselves than with any of it's constituents so if it means they're safer just assuming claims are valid in order to make sure that they don't get in trouble then maybe it's more of a problem with copyright law itself?

How so?

This is probably just my bias showing as I think anything designer is stupid. The example showed how a consumer would be protected by VeRO because it prevents them from getting "fake" purses, whatever that means. I mean, it's not like the purses are actually "fake" in the sense that they're not functioning like they should. The only sense in which it's "fake" is that it doesn't have the correct lettering or a pattern is slightly off, which I find completely insignificant and not representative of actual patent infringement issues.

 

[Your Mother]

Well, throughout time, Erno Rubik has obviously shown his interest in the Cubing community, so I think if we found a way to band together and get the attention of Rubik's, we might be able to use their help to take down, or at least stop Verdes. I think if Verdes just straight up stopped what they're doing, and put the GuHong, LingYun, and Maru 4x4 back on the market, people would put their respect back into V-Cubes, and possibly end, or partially end, the boycott against Verdes products.

 

[Tim Major]

Well, throughout time, Erno Rubik has obviously shown his interest in the Cubing community, so I think if we found a way to band together and get the attention of Rubik's, we might be able to use their help to take down, or at least stop Verdes.

Because seven towns definitely want to help a Chinese company produce 3x3s >___<

 

[HavoCentral]

I can wield this ban hammer all day folks. Be advised.

I lol'd. Im glad he let us know that the thread was being monitored, it helps to stop personal attacks and inappropriate behavior.

Because seven towns definitely want to help a Chinese company produce 3x3s >___<

If that is sarcasm, Megahouse, the chinese rubiks company. >.<

EDIT: japanese, my bad. lol

 

[Your Mother]

Because seven towns definitely want to help a Chinese company produce 3x3s >___<

If you never try, 0% chance of success.
If you do try, you'll at least have that tiny little itty bitty chance of success.

 

[masterofthebass]

god... so many things wrong in these few posts.

Megahouse is japanese, not chinese.
Erno Rubik basically hates speedcubing, and distances himself from the community. SevenTowns itself hardly cares about us either, they just use us as publicity every 2 years on their own terms.
Phillip: start boycotting eBay and petition congress to remove the idea of patents. See how far you get.

 

[uberCuber]

Everyone can stop talking now, I have found a solution. Since I already have a 5x5, 6x6, and 7x7, I'm gonna boycott Verdes. I bet that will solve everyone's problems.

 

[izovire]

god... so many things wrong in these few posts.

Megahouse is japanese, not chinese.
Erno Rubik basically hates speedcubing, and distances himself from the community. SevenTowns itself hardly cares about us either, they just use us as publicity every 2 years on their own terms.
Phillip: start boycotting eBay and petition congress to remove the idea of patents. See how far you get.

That's right, lol.

It seems like the discussion in this thread is wandering off into non-related things. The core of the issue is the Legality of the Verdes Innovations patent infringement claim that only happened on eBay so far. Unless the infringement claim has led to other sites... then it would be a good thing to discuss here.

No need for ridiculous rumors... thanks!

 

[prostx23]

It's been a few days now. Has anything new happened since last week? I'd think that with the internet, and how fast news travels because of it, perhaps another shoe has dropped that we'd have heard about. More sites that sell GuHongs being threatened...something.

 

[Klusion]

Looks like i'm ordering a few GuHongs TONIGHT!

 

[Stefan]

Phillip: Nah, you're comparing quite different things. Don't compare WCA's completely own regulations with Ebay's implementation of federal law. The equivalent of WCA's completely own regulations are Ebay's completely own policies. I think both WCA and Ebay do judge where they're the authority, and don't where they're not.

 

[choza244]

damn, I'm too late but

(the photo you posted was the epitome of sarcasm)

WTF!!!! I can't believe that after you said that we are kids that can't understand what you are trying to say, you post this! how is that photo sarcastic?????

Now I realize you don't even know what you say in your posts, and as I said, I'm too late to tell you this but you keep evading the questions that other members made you here, and now you change your version about the insults of the video saying that were some comments on youtube.............

The only thing you are achieving here is that the people get even more mad with the V-cube company.

(and before you tell me that I write like an inmature kid, just wanted to tell you that english is not my native language, and for me is hard to write exactly how I think in english)

 

[xkevx]

verdes is just being jealous with the Dayan being such a hot product...
if verdes would kindly release his ver of the V3 earlier, this problem wouldnt haven occur...all he is doing now is like a baby crying there and wasting his time with the different version of the v7's and not releasing other size cubes....

after reading the patent, i see the V3's version pieces, its different from the Dayan guhong/lingyun and someone said its like the design of the V7, i disagree with that as its not so similar compared to Dayans

so a new word in my dictionary!!!

Verdes = :fp:fp:fp:fp:fp:fp:fp:fp

 

[uberCuber]

verdes is just being jealous with the Dayan being such a hot product...
if verdes would kindly release his ver of the V3 earlier, this problem wouldnt haven occur...all he is doing now is like a baby crying there and wasting his time with the different version of the v7's and not releasing other size cubes....

after reading the patent, i see the V3's version pieces, its different from the Dayan guhong/lingyun and someone said its like the design of the V7, i disagree with that as its not so similar compared to Dayans

so a new word in my dictionary!!!

Verdes = :fp:fp:fp:fp:fp:fp:fp:fp

so a new word in my dictionary!!!

xkevx = :fp:fp:fp

note that I am not using 8 facepalms due to the rule against using excessive facepalms

I would like to ask if you have actually read any of this thread at all?

 

[qqwref]

I mean, it's not like the purses are actually "fake" in the sense that they're not functioning like they should.

But the function of a designer purse is not to hold things - it's to be fashionable (i.e. to show to other people that you have bought a designer purse). A purse that works exactly the same but is off-brand (in a way that someone looking closely could detect) does not have anywhere near the same value of the real one.

Phillip: start boycotting eBay and petition congress to remove the idea of patents. See how far you get.

You're right, why bother changing laws that don't make sense? If a single person can't affect something, it's always better to leave it as it is.

 

[Toquinha1977]

Looks like i'm ordering a few GuHongs TONIGHT!

I dropped an order for like 18 DIYs (mix of black and whites) to share with the Vancouver group. Possibly a knee jerk reaction, but given that Popbuying lost their PayPal account, the same might happen to Lightake.

 

[Nestor]

Being relatively new to cubing (not even a year) all I knew about Verdes came from an article linked in TwistyPuzzles explaining his journey on building high order puzzles. Even as a cubing-newbie, I understood the hard work and the brains required to pull out what he did when creating th V product line. What he did was amazing, and this sad incident regarding the GuHong does not affect the good impression I have towards him for his contributions.

I own GuHongs and buy KOs (being on a extremely tight budget and deep in debt in a poor country on a bad economy, I can't afford the real thing) so it is a contradiction that I actually support his company's efforts to take a stand against what they consider an infringement upon their property. I cannot pass judgement on the matter about they having grounds to do so, and until more information is available no one can for that matter. No matter how much people argue one way or the other, in the end they have, at most, educated guesses about what is going on.

The ones I feel sorry for, and the real loosers here, are the shop vendors that now are left in limbo. After the initial storm has passed, I doubt Dayan will see a drop in sales for his amazing cube (after all, there will always be several sites that sell it or stores that accept credit cards) or that cubers will be unable to get their chinese cubes on the net anymore. But the small shop sellers are being cut off from selling their stock in a major site by this move, and that is something rather regrettable.

What is my point after saying all of this? Perhaps just that we should cool off a little.. this issue is not black and white yet some seem to be taking hard positions on one side or another. As much passion as this hobbie arises in many people, all this is still about plastic toys and is not worth it to loose our heads over it.

/flameshield on

 

[avgdi]

I dropped an order for like 18 DIYs (mix of black and whites) to share with the Vancouver group. Possibly a knee jerk reaction, but given that Popbuying lost their PayPal account, the same might happen to Lightake.

If you have any extras could I buy one or two off of you?
I live less than an hour away from Vancouver.

 

[ender9994]

Although I'm not sure that the two are completely related, lightake just removed its cubing section for the time being. He said:

"Hi:
Currentle we have some problems with the cube infringement, so we have to cancel all the cubes in our site, then make a inspection to update
the normal cubes into our site.
Sorry for any inconvenience.

Lightake.com"

Just thought I would post it here since not everyone checks the lightake thread

Doug

 

[amostay2004]

Oh crap it's got to Lightake now

This is gonna get ugly