[Help Thread] Beginners Method Discussion thread

[Ranzha]

At that point, if you want to push below 50 seconds or a minute, you will probably need to learn 2 look OLL and 2 look PLL (also called 4 look last layer)

You posted a great response!
However, this snippet was a little bit off.

I averaged 35 before switching to (meaning first hearing about and getting interested into) CFOP.

 

[palmcubes]

learn keyhole its a great transition to f2l

 

[Ranzha]

learn keyhole its a great transition to f2l

This.
Keyholing is a technique which implements solving three first-layer corners and using the empty slot to insert the middle edges.
Personally, I found keyholing too rotation-heeding, and thus I did middle layer completely before doing first layer corners. I averaged 31 with it.

 

[Rosette]

My advice, don't learn F2L yet.

You still can improve a lot by the beginner method you're using

I'd say learn F2L later and learn 4-look last layer.

Try learning F2L when you get below 1 minute.

 

[Olji]

My advice, don't learn F2L yet.

You still can improve a lot by the beginner method you're using

I'd say learn F2L later and learn 4-look last layer.

Try learning F2L when you get below 1 minute.

why not learn F2L when he wants to learn it, personally, I think that you can learn anything anytime, you just need to be motivated, and learning something as a stepping stone to something else can help too (like 2look OLL to full OLL)
feel free to flame me, but that's what i think... :rolleyes:

 

[da25centz]

my first recommendation is to learn the 2 look PLL (its only like 7 algs)
then, learn the "3 look OLL" or the "fish method". basically, learn the sune and anti-sune algs, along with F (R U R' U') F'. With that, you can use the R U R' U' alg to get the LL cross, and then by doing sune or anti-sune once or twice, you will have the OLL done. Once you have all that down, I would learn F2l before learning the rest of the 2 look OLLs. the fish method is a great stepping stone to the 2 look OLL because it teaches you 2 of the algs you need, and you start the recognize the cases you can get for OLL. Hope this helps

 

[cyoubx]

If you're lazy, you don't even need to know 2LPLL. For awhile, I transitioned using 4LPLL (corners then edges). And I agree that you should also learn 3LOLL.

 

[beingforitself]

At that point, if you want to push below 50 seconds or a minute, you will probably need to learn 2 look OLL and 2 look PLL (also called 4 look last layer)

You posted a great response!
However, this snippet was a little bit off.

I averaged 35 before switching to (meaning first hearing about and getting interested into) CFOP.

Yeah, I was basing my post on my own experiences, but I think your experience is a lot more common than mine.

I actually learned in a bit of a non-standard way, because I went straight to F2L, full PLL, and full OLL before I was even sub-minute. This, combined with the fact that I didn't get a DIY and learn fingertricks for a while, probably means that I spent way more effort than I needed to get to my current times.

 

[johnnyBuz]

Well it seems like everyone here is very helpful.

I was messing around with the cross today after watching the badmephisto video on 'good edges' and 'bad edges' + got my 1st layer cross moves down to the 7-10 range.

As for the rest of the responses, it seems like there is no general consensus on what direction to go in, but a lot of the responses gear towards learning some type of PLL/OLL.

If I'm not mistaken, I think the fish is the same thing as the sune? So I need to just sack up and learn those alg's. But it seems like a 2-look PLL or something along those lines is what I should get into next?

 

[Cubenovice]

Also check out badmephisto's or jasmine lee's beginners methods.

They both prepare you for the 3 look OLL and get rid of that dreadfull RDRD corner stuff.
Also for 1st layer corners stop doing mindless RUR'U' and look at what you are actually doing. Instead of x times RUR'U' you could also use single L'U'L or use a set up move like for instance RU2R' to set up for a single RUR' or L'U'L.

 

[beingforitself]

As for the rest of the responses, it seems like there is no general consensus on what direction to go in, but a lot of the responses gear towards learning some type of PLL/OLL.

That's mostly because something like 80-90% of the cubing community uses some form of CFOP (cross, f2l, oll, pll) to speedsolve, and the world record as well as the vast majority of the top 100 averages are with CFOP. Whether that's because CFOP is a better method or just because more people use it is anyone's guess (I tend towards the latter viewpoint).

There are at least several people averaging sub-20 with the Roux and Petrus methods as well, however, and both of these methods have lower average move counts than CFOP. It's just that more people happen to use CFOP (probably both for historical reasons and because it involves less thinking to learn), so you are more likely to get help from people online with CFOP questions (although I'm sure someone like Kirjava could answer any Roux questions you have). You should definitely look into both Petrus and Roux and see if you like either approach better than LBL (layer by layer) methods.

If I'm not mistaken, I think the fish is the same thing as the sune? So I need to just sack up and learn those alg's. But it seems like a 2-look PLL or something along those lines is what I should get into next?

I've never heard of the word "fish" being used to refer to a particular algorithm (I looked it up on the speedsolving wiki and apparently it refers to an OLL case type, but I've never heard it before on the forum). Sune is always used to refer to the algorithm R U R' U R U2 R', which can be used alongside F R U R' U' F' for a basic 2-algorithm OLL method.

Yeah, if you want to get fast at any LBL method you pretty much have to memorize the 14 algorithms for 4LLL as a bear minimum.

You can start with just learning 3 algs for a beginner's OLL/PLL last layer method (see http://badmephisto.com/begsoln/) if you don't already know them. Later you can add 4 more algs for 2-look PLL, then later the last 7 for 2-look OLL.

 

[johnnyBuz]

Well I just set a personal best tonight! I went and learned mephisto's beginner (3rd layer) method to get past the dreaded corners that were tying me up and I'm already seeing improvement.

I timed 6 solves and they were: 1:34, 1:16, 1:37, 1:23, 1:44, 1:20 for an average of 1:29. That's a 6 second improvement on my average of yesterday using my now outdated method

Problems still arise with my 1st layer. Finishing 1st layer using beginner is ~25-30 seconds. 2nd layer ~50-55 seconds and then 3rd layer depends on if I have a lucky cube or not.

Orienting corners has now become the repetitive move: R U R' U R U2 R'

So now I think if I want to cut off another 5-10 seconds using the beginner method I need to learn the SUNES (there are 7 correct?). As in, 7 alg's that will complete the top face once the edges are aligned.

I know I can improve my 1st layer I need to finish watching mephisto's advanced cross video.

Progress is a strong motivator though!

 

[Olji]

Orienting corners has now become the repetitive move: R U R' U R U2 R'

that alg is the sune, the second sune is called anti-sune and is just an inversion of sune, so anti-sune is L' U' L U' L' U2 L, Good luck in getting better

 

[johnnyBuz]

The 7 I am talking about are these ones from mephisto's site: http://badmephisto.com/oll.php

Case 3, 13, 21, 22, 35, 36, and 48.

Would anyone recommend learning them the way mephisto suggests, one 'trigger' group at a time, or these 7 first after I align edges properly?

 

[Olji]

case 35 and 36 are the sunes, and its only 2 sunes, the other Oll's got other names too, but i dont know them, and i dont really want to bother knowing their names either >.<

you should go for 2 look Oll first, thats the 7 cases you have counted up there + 2 more to get the cross on last layer (since those cases all have a cross), since in 2 look Oll, you first make cross, then check the case and complete last layer. (hence "2 look")

 

[Cubenovice]

If you want to take the easy route:
Have a look at badmephisto's 2 look printble OLL sheet:
http://badmephisto.com/2LookOLL.pdf

If you want to understand sunes a bit more, have a look at Jasmine Lee's beginner method for the 7 cases:
http://www.ozcubegirl.com/rubikscubesolution.html

By using the right combination of Sune and Anti-Sune you can solve all 7 cases with max two algs.

I find learning is more rewarding if you figure out the combinations by yourself.
Offcourse for speed you would later still switch to the 7 algs on Badm's page but this "learning step" gives you a better understanding.

 

[superslothcuber]

Beginners Method.. how to quickly solve 2nd layer edges?

I know the algorithm for orienting the edges from top layer to middle layer, but is there a quicker way to orient an edge thats already in the 2nd layer without having to first replace it with an incorrect edge just to bring it to the top layer? This requires using the algorithm twice for a single piece, which is annoying and takes a ton of time. I realize using beginners method is not very conducive to speed solving, but before I move on to learning CFOP Id like to get as fluid as possible with beginners. k thnx.

 

[uniacto]

I think there may be an F2L alg that can help you with that if you look on the speedsolving wiki

 

[ncube]

You could check out keyhole if you don't feel like learning fridrich f2l. But, really consider learning f2l because it isn't as hard as you think. Look up badmephisto f2l.

 

[tx789]

Yes

R U R' U y' R' U2 R U2 R' U R something like that

Learn f2l you get faster in the long run