[Help Thread] ZZ and ZB Discussion

I haven't heard of anything like that. I'd bet that orienting and phasing while solving the last ce-pair is just too much to be reasonable.
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That's what I was thinking. The only way to ensure that you'll have edges oriented in an otherwise-normal CFOP solve is through ZBF2L or VHF2L, unless there's an option that I'm not aware of. I don't think that it would be feasible, or fast, to do both VH and phasing simultaneously.
 
Anonymous said:
I haven't heard of anything like that. I'd bet that orienting and phasing while solving the last ce-pair is just too much to be reasonable.
Click to expand...

That's what I was thinking. The only way to ensure that you'll have edges oriented in an otherwise-normal CFOP solve is through ZBF2L or VHF2L, unless there's an option that I'm not aware of. I don't think that it would be feasible, or fast, to do both VH and phasing simultaneously.
Click to expand...

I'd imagine additional VH algs could be formulated that maintain or swap particular edges. It appears there would be 3 versions of every VH case. (I very well could be way off on this) That would be 96 algs, which is still fewer than ZBF2L.

Changing subjects a bit, in these F2LL methods that rely on inserting an already paired corner+edge, how do you handle a case that is difficult to pair? For example, (setup: R2 U R' U R U2 R2 U2). With ZZ I would abandon phasing, inserting with the inverse of the above mentioned setup, and just fall back on regular OLL+PLL. Does anyone actually take the time to break up and pair such cases?
 
IIRC, ZZF2L takes less moves than Fridrich, so I would assume for your first question the answer is ZZF2L. Your second is kind of subjective, and I also know nothing about ZBF2L, so I can't help you there.

Also, don't quote me on my first answer, I'm not 100 % sure.
 
JeffDelucia said:
On average what will take less moves. EOline+ RUL f2l or cross+zbf2l? Also which is faster? (yes there is a difference)
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CFOP less moves, ZZ about the same, but you have EOLL done already, so that's good.

At least for me.
If you've got good block-building skills, ZZ may yield less moves for you, and if you know advanced techniques for CFOP F2L, likewise.

They're both pretty good, and if you have a decently fast EOline, you'll do well with ZZF2L.
 
Anonymous said:
If anyone is still keeping track, you can add me to the list of ZZ users.

Is there anyone who's sub-15 with ZZ? Sub-12?
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Yes - I'm - some of You can probabely know me from the previous ZZ thread - I posted there my video with 15.0x avg using zz-vh

But it was over a year ago..

I have an over half-year break in cubing.. i came back in June.. and I'm still using zz.. is my main and the only one method (I don't even know every plls) - after coming back my SD is.. terrible.. I can do a pretty good 11 or 12 non-LC but sometimes.. it's over 20.. overall my best avg at the moment is 13.84 (in this year 13.99) - mean of 100: 14.84

What about JTLE - in my opinion.. it can be very useful in FM - in speedcubing - i don't think so.. it requires a lot of double moves like U2.. and as someone said.. it can be used in lucky solves.. very rarely..
 
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Stachuk1992 said:
a small kitten said:
Does the U/D help much in your opinion? Personally it slows me down.
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If I see a nice line, it's useful. That, or if I'm in comp, and I don't feel like wasting time rotating.

Also, I do CFOP for solves if I see a nice cross, or if the EO sucks, so I simultaneously look for those on both faces.
Click to expand...

That's extremely impressive inspection. Do you look for all these things with a single pass over the cube, or do you abort and start over when something feels bad?

Inspection is a weakness for me, and I'm looking to refine it.
 
Matt S said:
Stachuk1992 said:
a small kitten said:
Does the U/D help much in your opinion? Personally it slows me down.
Click to expand...
If I see a nice line, it's useful. That, or if I'm in comp, and I don't feel like wasting time rotating.

Also, I do CFOP for solves if I see a nice cross, or if the EO sucks, so I simultaneously look for those on both faces.
Click to expand...

That's extremely impressive inspection. Do you look for all these things with a single pass over the cube, or do you abort and start over when something feels bad?

Inspection is a weakness for me, and I'm looking to refine it.
Click to expand...
Well, it's like

Look for EO on blue/green front and cross on D at the same time.
If both of those are really bad, do a y and
look for EO on red/orange(well, black for me) frond, and cross on U.

Usually, I end up doing cross on D or EOline with blue/green front, yellow/white top.
 
So I'm going to be slowly practicing ZZ and a secondary method for a while and after LongIsland 2010 I'll try switching entirely. However I have a question. What do you ZZ'ers do on big cubes? Do you guys just CFOP? or is there a way to adapt ZZ for cubes larger than 3x3
 
JeffDelucia said:
So I'm going to be slowly practicing ZZ and a secondary method for a while and after LongIsland 2010 I'll try switching entirely. However I have a question. What do you ZZ'ers do on big cubes? Do you guys just CFOP? or is there a way to adapt ZZ for cubes larger than 3x3
Click to expand...
I CFOP, and try to influence EOLL as I'm going.
 
My first attempts, using identical scrambles

CFOP ZZ
50.89 2:30.22
43.91 1:23.48
1:00.24 2:29.97 Actually DQ
49.34 2:59.47
50.19 2:02.88

I show that my inspection takes quite a bit longer than 15s and I am totally new to blockbuilding. I'd better not do any timed solves the coming days...

Not being allowed to do F moves during F2L is seriously holding me back too.
Time to study some new moves.

But still interested!
 
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