WCA Announcement on BLD

[pjk]

How do we know what topics are and are not acceptable on this forum? Is this really not a free-speech forum? How does one know when they cross the line?

You can discuss whatever you want. However, for this post, I have been asked to keep it friendly and not mention the name. That should be pretty easy to do. I hate having to edit and remove posts because someone didn't read my one line "rule" and obey it.

I don't mind you discussing these issues, but we need to keep it friendly. If you have further questions about this, please PM me.

 

[Harris Chan]

Sigh. He came, he cheated, he got banned.

 

[Derrick Eide17]

Mr. Eide, I still think you're a [word that I'm not going to use] for completely disregarding PJK's decision to leave any names out of this. By doing this, you shame the person involved even more, and disrespect the authority of these forums that you use.

im sorry you think im an a** but all i did was forget that Pjk said not to mention his name, which also i said i wouldnt mention anymore, and i even apologized. so if you still wanna be rude to me even after that, then fine. treat my as bad as you like, then your the bad person.

 

[Todd]

I have to disagree with some people and say 3 years seems fair. It's no different to drug cheats in any other sport.

 

[jazzthief81]

I think we should also blame the WCA making such cheating possible.
The WCA regulations started as a description of the cube-games. But history learns when worldtitles, money and eternal fame is involved people or countries (former DDR) can do strange things (use enhancing drugs) to get to the top.

No cuber ever signed for a contractor document for respecting the WCA regulations before entering a competition. We just played a game, the winner got money and became a hero. A 14/15-year old boy cheating opposite the whole cube-community was just very smart, not against any law, not a crime. Because of his age I think he did not fully realize how he damaged others, stole money, what impact it would have on his live when get caught. In my opinion 2 years of suspension from all WCA-events is too much for this kid.

And there should be a clause about how he could shorten the suspension by giving back the money, admitting he cheated, making excuses to competitor he harmed. We may expect such regrettable actions from him when he will grow older, be wiser. How will we react then?

Gus

I agree with you that the penalty is maybe out of proportion considering the fact that our sport itself is still going through its puberty.

In some ways, speedcubing went a bit too fast and we skipped a lot of steps that other sports go through as they evolve into a professionally organised sport. We're already talking about world records and world champions, but where are the local clubs and competition circuits where people start to learn cubing as an amateur, gain valuable experience and learn how to behave properly in a competition before they make it to the big time?

Having said that, this doesn't make it any easier to take for the people involved. People put so much energy into organising competitions under the best possible circumstances. For them this is a slap in the face, not to mention for all the people who take this sport seriously and try their heart out to reach the highest level in an honest and sporting way.

This is not about cubing anymore, but about basic respect and I don't think you have to ask people to sign a piece of paper before you are entitled to earn their respect. This is just not how to threat other people.

He should have realised that, but it's perfectly understandable that he didn't at his age. 15 years is indeed young! It took me much, much longer to become a responsible person, that's for sure.

I think a mild reaction from the WCA wouldn't have been appropriate in this case but - as you Guus - I'm afraid that this might scar him too much.

Lars

 

[hait2]

so why was the original thread deleted?
here's his final statement anyhow, quoted verbatim, for those who missed it
this was before the WCA statement, and as far as I'm aware, no new posts have been made since this one

Heya All,

I do not often write posts to the forum, but this time I felt compelled to do so.

When this thread was launched, I felt no necessity to intervene, as the whole topic is so absolutely absurd! I thought it would die, soon. Then it has escalated to such extremes, that anything I would have said would only have been oil on fire, so I decided to remain silent for a further period of time.

Hundreds of you have been closely observing my every move during the last year - be it live, on large screen or through videos – checking, analysing.
And now, when I had a bad streak, I have been accused of cheating immediately. Some of you say I am a cheater when I have a success streak, and I am a cheater when I am not focused and DNF. I am a cheater when I sit, I am a cheater when I stand! I am a cheater when I look ahead, I am a cheater, when I look down…! Absurd! This whole thing reminds me on a witch hunt in the Middle Ages with several inquisitors. On bonfire, no matter why, he burns so nicely!
There is no need to immediately crucify me, either. Any of us can under perform compared to previous achievements. It is a matter of how tired/distracted/ in lack of exercise you are. During the last competition I had many DNFs in other events also, not only in blindfold. Belgian Open was a fairly poor competition for me. That’s all. Nothing more and nothing less. Further it does not qualify any of my previous achievements in any way!

My biggest wish was to prove to the whole cubing community during the Benelux Open that I cannot be written off. After things escalated to an unbelievable level (or depth, depending on taste), and after many extensive conversations and thorough consideration with/by Ron deep into Wednesday night (thank you Ron for taking your time and efforts!!), it was decided that I would not board the Thursday morning plane to Holland. I’m taking a short break. In the meantime I will be concentrating on catching up on my studies and of course cubing, cubing, cubing, enjoying full support from my family and friends.

I would like to thank you all who support me!

I kindly ask those who had – with mild understatement – a less positive attitude to calm down. (Of course, I cannot prevent you to take this post into characters and analyse them

I wish those participating at the Benelux Open a nice atmosphere, a lot of success and many new records!

See you later!

[name removed]]

Ps.: So long and thanks for all the carrots.
Ps. 2.: I’m thinking about returning to my own planet...

cheers

 

[Dene]

I think it's an important life lesson for him. Better to learn it now, than when it could really hit him hard, and end with him in jail, and costing him thousands and thousands of dollars (or whatever other currency). I myself was brought up with strict rules on not cheating and how to behave and such. I see no excuse for him, not even his young age. I was more responsible than that as a mere child, let alone a teenager.

 

[jazzthief81]

I think it's an important life lesson for him. Better to learn it now, than when it could really hit him hard, and end with him in jail, and costing him thousands and thousands of dollars (or whatever other currency). I myself was brought up with strict rules on not cheating and how to behave and such. I see no excuse for him, not even his young age. I was more responsible than that as a mere child, let alone a teenager.

Yes Dene,

There is no excuse, but who is at fault here? I think it's amazing that, given his age, in this whole discussion his parents are never mentioned.

 

[Ethan Rosen]

I don't think the WCA can be blamed in any way. Yes the blindfolds aren't fullproof, but I don't think they expect someone to cheat. Usually you don't win anything major, so it's usually a competition where the main prize is honor and pride. I of course think that now the standards should be adjusted, but it is my opinion that he was the only exception to the honesty. I still believe he is a great cuber, but a lousy person. I think though that 3 years is fair, he had many oppurtunities to come clean and he wouldn't.

 

[ExoCorsair]

so why was the original thread deleted?

Requested by the thread creator and it was getting out of hand.

 

[Dene]

I think it's an important life lesson for him. Better to learn it now, than when it could really hit him hard, and end with him in jail, and costing him thousands and thousands of dollars (or whatever other currency). I myself was brought up with strict rules on not cheating and how to behave and such. I see no excuse for him, not even his young age. I was more responsible than that as a mere child, let alone a teenager.

Yes Dene,

There is no excuse, but who is at fault here? I think it's amazing that, given his age, in this whole discussion his parents are never mentioned.

Perhaps it would be fair to look at the parents. I myself do not know Krazy K. or anything about him or his family at all, so I can't be a judge. The parents definitely could be a factor, but this isn't a psychology clinic, it isn't really for us to decide. However, even upbringing, in my opinion, is a weak excuse, as there are many counter-examples to the "standard" (that standard being, children will follow from the example of their parents).

 

[badmephisto]

i find myself agreeing with Stefan and his 1st 2nd 3rd... chances argument; His stubbornness to not admit he was cheating is pretty striking given all the evidence against him. I just wonder how long he thought he could keep cheating the community. I mean, there are plenty of smart people around here, and many of them (as Stefan already demonstrated in the past) are more than eager to conduct a full investigation at any time

 

[Swordsman Kirby]

He has held many world records completely unrelated to BLD, records that are impossible to cheat.

Ever seen those magic videos of him at home? Palms on timer. No one knows if he does this in comp.

 

[Stefan]

I think we should also blame the WCA making such cheating possible.

Bull****. The WCA didn't do anything wrong. It was solely the competitor. If someone beats you up with a baseball bat, do you sue the baseball bat manufacturer?

No cuber ever signed for a contractor document for respecting the WCA regulations before entering a competition.

As Lars pointed out, there's no need to make someone sign a contract promising to respect you and not lie to you. Besides, this wouldn't work for someone who's lying anyway. And in my opinion, the WCA regulations are there to specify a common way to do things so that we get good comparisons of our capabilities.

For example they specifiy exactly how to use the timer. Otherwise someone could gain an unfair advantage by starting with the heels of the hands on the timer, and the fingers already around the cube, and start twisting slightly earlier than starting the timer, while others have a disadvantage because they start the way we do now. For that, there certainly needs to be a regulation, as it's not obvious what is right and good, and we need a common way to do it. But... it is *not* necessary to have a regulation forbidding peeking under the blindfold, as that is *obviously very wrong*.

Finally, besides such a contract being neither necessary nor helpful in order to prevent hardcore intentional cheating, competitors actually *are* explicitly required to follow the WCA regulations. Look at the registration page of RWC2007 as well as regulation 2a1.

Now I'm also convinced many cubers cheated in the past. I would have done it myself!

Good to know, Guus.

 

[Mike Hughey]

I think we should also blame the WCA making such cheating possible.

Bull****. The WCA didn't do anything wrong. It was solely the competitor. If someone beats you up with a baseball bat, do you sue the baseball bat manufacturer?

In the USA, you might.

 

[KConny]

Just think of all of the time he made us waste on reading these threads....

 

[Blue Transaparent]

What if...

Good day,

Have we ever stop and think of the possibilty that the competitor did NOT cheat? Maybe.. just maybe the guy does have a system of for BLD that everbody else doesnt know yet... maybe he's really that good...

Also, what about the second best 3x3x3 BLD solver? in single and multi BLD, they're that good... only he is better... they can also do it fast (the guy is 20 seconds faster apparently) and as many as many 10 cubes for multi BLD.. is it possible that the guy has a very very good system in memorizing? impossible? or improbable? why not?

 

[jazzthief81]

Have we ever stop and think of the possibilty that the competitor did NOT cheat?

Always, until Joel reconstructed that solve at the World Championship. He clearly cheated.

 

[Stefan]

Blue, did you read anything that has been written about this incidence? Apparently not. You're the kind of guy who'd also enter the speedcubing community and suggest to solve the F2L corners and edges in pairs. A know-it-all without a clue.

 

[Swordsman Kirby]

Good day,

Have we ever stop and think of the possibilty that the competitor did NOT cheat? Maybe.. just maybe the guy does have a system of for BLD that everbody else doesnt know yet... maybe he's really that good...

Also, what about the second best 3x3x3 BLD solver? in single and multi BLD, they're that good... only he is better... they can also do it fast (the guy is 20 seconds faster apparently) and as many as many 10 cubes for multi BLD.. is it possible that the guy has a very very good system in memorizing? impossible? or improbable? why not?

So good that he DNFs ending with a scrambled cube. Let's see, that reminds me of a story. Someone was doing multi-BLD 3 cubes in comp once. When he was on the third, another person asks "Is he on his first cube?" or something along those lines.