WCA Announcement on BLD

i think he deserved it. although i posted before that i don't consider him guilty (until the final proof)

and i don't understand the reason why his name is being kept private, when anybody know who he is..just because he's u-18.

anyway....all i wanna say is congrats to the real winners
 
Joël said:
Guys, I don't know how you feel about this, but personally, three years seems a bit too harsh.
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Someone also said everybody should get a second chance. And I agree with that. But...

First chance to do the right thing: Don't cheat in the first place.
Second chance to do the right thing: Come clean when practically caught cheating at competition.
Third chance to do the right thing: Come clean when publicly accused.
Fourth chance to do the right thing: Come clean when WCA gives you an honest opportunity to do so.
Fifth chance to do the right thing: Come clean when WCA confronts you with good evidence.

Then he even had the audacity to not just defend him passively but actually come here and vividly lie to our faces as far as that's possible through a forum. I really recommend you read his message again in the original accusation thread.

The cheating itself was bad. Stealing from others is worse, and I don't just mean the money/trophies, but more importantly the feeling you get standing on the podium knowing you won something, as that can't simply be returned. Then finally, all the lying is worst. By itself, and also by causing us all a lot of further unnecessary trouble. Had he come clean early, this would be a whole different situation. As far as I know, he still hasn't. He lied to the bitter end, apparently hoping we'd fall for him, insulting our integrity and intelligence.

And like someone already pointed out, it actually appears to be *two* years, unless he keeps messing with us.

I don't know how the three/two years were decided. What's your basis for saying three years seems too much? In my personal opinion, I don't want to see him again. Ever.
 
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i like stefan's attitude. i remember when he first answered in the accusation topic some time ago and i thought he was just defending matyas cause he knows him or soemthing like this (sorry for this, but it's waht i thought) like others did..but it seems he is a fair guy with personality and is very radical in his opinions :)

btw...i didn't see where matyas wrote, defending himself again by lying...i will search the forum
 
Did WCA bother to do the Paper on face thing with him just for him to prove that he can do BLD fast?

I'd hate to see him prosecuted on circumstantial evidence (highly improbable but not impossible).

Tim.
 
TimMc said:
Did WCA bother to do the Paper on face thing with him just for him to prove that he can do BLD fast?

I'd hate to see him prosecuted on circumstantial evidence (highly improbable but not impossible).

Tim.
Click to expand...

He avoided Benelux, what makes you think he'd take the test by WCA?
 
MarcusStuhr said:
Joel: I'd actually have to sit down and try to quantify something, but I'm just speaking in generalities here/approximating/ballparking. I am saying that, for example, his unfair actions technically incurred cost to everyone involved in the competitions. However, during that same period, he also gained through cheating. So, to compensate, you can figure out a reasonable ban period that makes the cheater internalize the cost (in terms of foregone benefit that would be comparable to the costs).

In other words, three years is reasonable considering the amount of money people spent flying to these events, the amount of prize money won unfairly, and the amount of utility foregone by honest participants. Three years is reasonable in this case. Some people have to wait years to even have a crack at a given event.

Bla bla bla bla
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But how do you make the translation from time -> money? I think if two people would try to make such a calculation indepenently, I would not expect them to calculate the same length for an appropriate ban.

I don't see how a 'fair' punishment can be based on these facts? Is there any law system in the world that punishes crimes by making these type of calculations?
 
TimMc said:
Did WCA bother to do the Paper on face thing with him just for him to prove that he can do BLD fast?
Click to expand...

Milan did that test at the Belgian Open, remember? There's at least one video of a DNF, and most of that "solve" has been reconstructed (CO, CP, and one edge 3-cycle)(not by me, though I've been involved). It's the same strange method used in the other reconstructed solves, but it appears to be completely random, not solving anything.

I tried to contact him a week ago to give him a chance to correct that solve (adding a cube rotation here and there or whatever went wrong) and thus prove that he is indeed capable of tracking all the side effects like he claimed. He hasn't replied yet, and I don't expect him to anymore.

Plus don't forget Joel's reconstruction shown in the original thread. The side effects during CO and CP seemed hard to believe, but at least it did save some moves. What Joel found was a clear mistake, fixed in an absolutely awful way which makes no sense at all.
 
TimMc said:
It was the WCA that didn't implement a decent means of being blindfolded. Really, who lets competitors bring their "own" blindfolds to an event? :-/
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Bringing your own blindfold has many advantages. I doubt there's one blindfold that can fit every head.Would you expect the competition organizers to buy blindfolds in various sizes for the competition? And have one for each competitor, since they might get sweaty?

Everyone can look at the WCA regulations and find holes in it. Such as I could observe someone solving and learn the scramble quick. But the methods to prevent these are usually to sequester the people who haven't competed and don't let them watch the competitors before them.

From Ron's post:

"The mission of WCA is: more competitions in more countries with more people and more fun, under fair conditions."

So I believe the WCA is aware of holes, but doesn't want to plug them to the point where it isn't fun anymore.
 
Bryan said:
I doubt there's one blindfold that can fit every head.Would you expect the competition organizers to buy blindfolds in various sizes for the competition? And have one for each competitor, since they might get sweaty?
Click to expand...

That's a possible solution but I'd recommend finding something cheaper so that they can be used just the one time per person.

I'm sure a well designed black box could be used instead :-P

Or you could numb your eyes with a chemical and have them sprayed so that you can't see :-PPPPP

Tim.
 
"I don't know how the three/two years were decided. What's your basis for saying three years seems too much? In my personal opinion, I don't want to see him again. Ever."



Finally stefan something you and I can agree on.
 
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Bryan said:
From Ron's post:

"The mission of WCA is: more competitions in more countries with more people and more fun, under fair conditions."

So I believe the WCA is aware of holes, but doesn't want to plug them to the point where it isn't fun anymore.
Click to expand...

I think the WCA is just trying to stress the fact that the mission of the WCA is a positive one: they're trying their best to improve the way our sport is organized and having fun should always be the central motivator in doing that.

They don't want to give people the impression that their main objective is to punish people that violate their rules, which is how some people could interpret the current decision. However to make the former possible, such negative decisions have to be made sometimes.

I don't think they're going to take it easy on assuring that competitions are run in a fair way, certainly not after this incident. But according to me that shouldn't spoil the fun in any way: for a lot of the current 'holes', simple solutions should be enough to exclude bad things happening in the future.
 
I think the WCA has handled this particular situation reasonably well. Like Stefan said, much of the cost of cheating is not necessarily the prize money (although that is still a big part of it), but the happiness you steal from others! When you win something through your own efforts, the feeling of accomplishment is great. However, many people miss out on this well-deserved feeling if someone is beating you to the punch unfairly. And something like that compromises the nature of a competition.

Competitions need to be fair and the punishments needs to be reasonably tough to ensure the honest people stay honest and that competitions can be enjoyed at face value without worrying about cheaters wasting everyone's time, effort, energy, etc.

Joel: Certainly! I'm speaking from a sort of economics/accounting view, where time-derived costs are calculated all the time. And you are correct that no two people would get precisely the same length because it depends on the criteria used, but anyway I'm too lazy to debate the matter because it doesn't matter much to me -- I basically wanted to say that three years seems more than appropriate given the circumstances and the fact that the competitor had many chances to come clean, as Stefan pointed out. Many, many people spent hard-earned money to go to those competitors only to compete against someone who wasn't playing by the rules, and who was effectively stealing from everyone in more ways than one on a scale that more than justifies a three-year ban.
 
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Derrick Eide17 said:
[name removed] Should be banned FOREVER. he is a DISGRACE, a LIAR, a THIEF. So why should ANYTHING BE HARSH? HE DESERVES IT!!!!!!
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Why you are so Arrogant to him? Is it based of he is GREAT with 4x4x4, 5x5x5.3x3x3 OH ?he should be banned ____FOREVER___ ? reminds me to The Gladiator , where the people yelling out : kill him kill him kill him !,even the third countries have Law Systems .

Derrick Eide17 said:
"I don't know how the three/two years were decided. What's your basis for saying three years seems too much? In my personal opinion, I don't want to see him again. Ever.".
Click to expand...
You don't have to see him because i think HE DOESN"T want to see you either ;)
 
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