ZZ speedcubing method

[byu]

As for the Line part, I recognize EO during inspection and plan that out. Then, I can execute it without looking, and instead, I'm figuring out how I'm going to do the line.

 

[Chuberchuckee]

Just a question: Has anyone else besides Zbigniew Zborowski himself learned full ZZLL (167-168 algorithms) for the 1LLL in ZZ-b?

 

[Lord Voldemort]

I was trying to learn the WV algs the other day, and it really didn't seem that great. So I have two ideas that could possibly be explored.
1) Permute edges with the last slot. With ZZ, this will leave you with just a COLL (a special group would have to be created to preverve edge permutation too) for the last layer. Edge permutation is obviously 2 Gen and can be done fairly intuituvely. I got this idea from phasing
2) Permute the corner with the last slot. If I'm correct, there are only 24 cases for this. This would get the last layer 2-gen, which would leave make it pretty fast. There are 77 Algorithms for the last layer, though I suspect it will be lower because of symmetry.

What do you people thinkof this?

 

[blah]

I was trying to learn the WV algs the other day, and it really didn't seem that great. So I have two ideas that could possibly be explored.
1) Permute edges with the last slot. With ZZ, this will leave you with just a COLL (a special group would have to be created to preverve edge permutation too) for the last layer. Edge permutation is obviously 2 Gen and can be done fairly intuituvely. I got this idea from phasing
2) Permute the corner with the last slot. If I'm correct, there are only 24 cases for this. This would get the last layer 2-gen, which would leave make it pretty fast. There are 77 Algorithms for the last layer, though I suspect it will be lower because of symmetry.

What do you people thinkof this?

1. Slow, might as well use EPLL.
2. Slower. And, not new. http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?p=126953#post126953

 

[Musturd]

I've been fooling around with ZZ lately, and I was wondering about a few things:
1. Is it better to blockbuild a 1x2x3 left block before working on the right side, or just do an occasional xcross and do all but the last F2L slot in a random order (using the FR slot as a buffer, and finishing with it)?
2. I know how everyone is obsessed with WV, but wouldn't CLS make more sense? Are there any downsides to CLS, or any reason I should learn WV instead (besides the number of algorithms difference)?

 

[Cride5]

I've been fooling around with ZZ lately, and I was wondering about a few things:
1. Is it better to blockbuild a 1x2x3 left block before working on the right side, or just do an occasional xcross and do all but the last F2L slot in a random order (using the FR slot as a buffer, and finishing with it)?
2. I know how everyone is obsessed with WV, but wouldn't CLS make more sense? Are there any downsides to CLS, or any reason I should learn WV instead (besides the number of algorithms difference)?

1. Your probably best going with whatever you see first, after all lookahead is really what constrains F2L times. Searching for difficult pieces will only slow you down. I do it in four stages:

1. first 1x2x2 block
2. complete 1x2x3 side or start second 1x2x2 block
3. start second 1x2x2 block or complete 1x2x3 side
4. complete 1x2x3 side

One thing to make sure off though, is when starting an uncompleted side, complete the 1x2x2 block before moving onto the next block since its difficult to add a single edge to a completed 1x1x2 block.

2) I may be wrong, but does CLS not start with the last mid-slice edge already placed??

 

[Musturd]

I've been fooling around with ZZ lately, and I was wondering about a few things:
1. Is it better to blockbuild a 1x2x3 left block before working on the right side, or just do an occasional xcross and do all but the last F2L slot in a random order (using the FR slot as a buffer, and finishing with it)?
2. I know how everyone is obsessed with WV, but wouldn't CLS make more sense? Are there any downsides to CLS, or any reason I should learn WV instead (besides the number of algorithms difference)?

1. Your probably best going with whatever you see first, after all lookahead is really what constrains F2L times. Searching for difficult pieces will only slow you down. I do it in four stages:

1. first 1x2x2 block
2. complete 1x2x3 side or start second 1x2x2 block
3. start second 1x2x2 block or complete 1x2x3 side
4. complete 1x2x3 side

One thing to make sure off though, is when starting an uncompleted side, complete the 1x2x2 block before moving onto the next block since its difficult to add a single edge to a completed 1x1x2 block.

Thanks

2) I may be wrong, but does CLS not start with the last mid-slice edge already placed??

Sorry, I meant place last mid-slice edge, AUF, then CLS (this should be a max of 4 or 5 moves). Isn't set-up for WV on average many more turns? Maybe it's not...
And that is why I'm asking which is more efficient. Which is more efficient -- CLS or WV or EJF2L?

EDIT: I googled around and found this thread: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10100
EJF2L seems like it would be a good way to finish ZZ (and wouldn't require many setup moves)

 

[Cride5]

Hay people! I've just finished my second all-nighter working on a ZZ cubing page. It explains EOLine and F2L in some detail, along with algs, diagrams, animations etc. Get it here:

http://cube.crider.co.uk

Let me know what you think .. if you have any comments or suggestions etc.

Now I need to get some ZZzzz's

 

[blah]

1. SAME COLOUR TOP
(U') R' U2 R' U R' U' R U2' R
(U R U2 R') U R U R' U2 R U R'

Change to R U' R U'2 R'2 U' R2 U' R'2. Been using this for ages, unbelievably smooth for OH.

Edit:
Okay I'm done reading that page and I have a little something to say. I've done very extensive research on every single Last 2 Slots (hereafter known as EOL2S) possibility and I think you have too few cases listed there. There's that example that I just mentioned. Here's another example: (setup: L' U' L U L' U' L U L' U' L U) Instead of solving that last slot with the same "alg", a y' rotation followed by R U R' U' R U R' U' R U R' U' is much faster for people like me who just never can get their left hands to function as they'd like it to. And for others with this "weak hand" issue, if the last slot happens to be on L, a z cube rotation will do the trick. And these two things I mentioned are just 2 of the many many many tips and tricks I've come to discover after flirting with ZZ for more than half a year now.

There are lots and lots of nice cases with mismatched pairs, empty slots and stuck pieces for EOL2S that I've stored all over the place on my computer in random text files that are, sadly, yet to be organized.

Also, something worth mentioning to those interested, is that the number of ZBF2L cases is reduced by half with EOLine. This might motivate someone to work towards full ZB.

I believe an entire algorithm set of all EOL2S cases is not unreasonable and in fact, very achievable, and REALLY cuts down the move count. (EOLine > Block 1 > Block 2 > EOL2S > ZBLL, worth a shot?) I just haven't had the time to do any cubing nor cubing research these days, sigh. Paying bills sucks big time

 

[blah]

Ah, and I discovered a long list of unpublished OLL and PLL algs by snooping around the source code for a while

 

[Cride5]

1. SAME COLOUR TOP
(U') R' U2 R' U R' U' R U2' R
(U R U2 R') U R U R' U2 R U R'

Change to R U' R U'2 R'2 U' R2 U' R'2. Been using this for ages, unbelievably smooth for OH.

Nice alg, added to list

Edit:
Okay I'm done reading that page and I have a little something to say. I've done very extensive research on every single Last 2 Slots (hereafter known as EOL2S) possibility and I think you have too few cases listed there.

There's that example that I just mentioned. Here's another example: (setup: L' U' L U L' U' L U L' U' L U) Instead of solving that last slot with the same "alg", a y' rotation followed by R U R' U' R U R' U' R U R' U' is much faster for people like me who just never can get their left hands to function as they'd like it to. And for others with this "weak hand" issue, if the last slot happens to be on L, a z cube rotation will do the trick. And these two things I mentioned are just 2 of the many many many tips and tricks I've come to discover after flirting with ZZ for more than half a year now.

There are lots and lots of nice cases with mismatched pairs, empty slots and stuck pieces for EOL2S that I've stored all over the place on my computer in random text files that are, sadly, yet to be organized.

If it works for you, I guess there's no reason to religiously stick to the 'no cube rotations' philosophy, and I'm guessing most cases using z rotations to solve LH slot cases will be 2-gen, making them super-fast I've added a bit of blurb on using cube rotations, as well as your algorithm. If you're able to dig out all your last-slot cases I'll be more than happy to add them to the page. This kind of info would be very useful to ZZ cubers *thumbs up*

Also, something worth mentioning to those interested, is that the number of ZBF2L cases is reduced by half with EOLine. This might motivate someone to work towards full ZB.

I believe an entire algorithm set of all EOL2S cases is not unreasonable and in fact, very achievable, and REALLY cuts down the move count. (EOLine > Block 1 > Block 2 > EOL2S > ZBLL, worth a shot?) I just haven't had the time to do any cubing nor cubing research these days, sigh. Paying bills sucks big time

One algorithm for all EOL2S cases sounds HARDCORE, but that's to be expected from someone already dabbling in ZBLL

Ah, and I discovered a long list of unpublished OLL and PLL algs by snooping around the source code for a while

Lolz, very observant of you! I initially posted them up, but then thought that there are tonnes of these algs already out there, so doesn't really contribute much considering the extra blurb required. Its reserved as a perk for those who take the time to check my source

Cheers for the feedback

 

[irontwig]

Cride5, you might want to add this to your ZBLL links:

http://lar5.com/cube/270/index.html

 

[Cride5]

Lolz, another 'applet soup' page! Added with a warning

Cheers

 

[irontwig]

Yeah, I wished that he (or someone else for that matter) did a version with notation and diagrams.

 

[Lofty]

Maybe I'm slow but I don't get how ZBF2L can be used at all for the EOL2S. It seems to me that the number of ZBF2L cases should be reduced to around 20 cases for the last pair.
I don't really see why you would want to use an alg for that step either. I think that since the 3rd slot can easily be put in close to optimally using intuition and the 4th can be put in close to optimally with an alg/intuition is it really worth it to add the recognition of 2 slots into the mix?

 

[Cride5]

ZBF2L can be used for the last 1x1x2 blocks on each side, but as far as I'm aware, no-one has generated algorithms for placing both 1x1x2 blocks on each side in one step. I'm assuming that this is what blah meant by EOL2S. I would guess that the number of cases for EOL2S in one step would be fairly huge. No way my goldfish memory could cope with that

Intuition is optimal if both pieces are disconnected and in the U layer, but becomes much more difficult to achieve when pieces are connected, or in difficult positions. This is why it can be useful to learn algorithms for these cases. My ZZ page has algs for some of these difficult cases, but at blah says, it could have many more, as well as algs for making LH cases more RH friendly.

 

[Lofty]

Right... I know all of these tough cases and use them, that is why I said for the 4th pair alg/intuition and not just intuition like I did for the 3rd pair. The point of ZBF2L is to orient the LL edges as I'm sure you know, so I don't know how that is even remotely applicable for the ZZ method. The only thing I can think of is that when doing the EOLine you ignore the LL edges and then the number of ZBF2L would be cut in half if you count mirrors as separate algs as you wouldn't have to mirror anything since the last edge is already oriented.

 

[ostracod]

Cride5, I'm happy you made a ZZ page for everyone. Looks very useful, I will have to read through it myself. I saw you included my WV link. ;U

It seemed before that there was no real "portal" page for ZZ containing a lot of information. Such a page exists for Petrus, Roux, and of course for Fridrich. But now there's a nice home base for ZZ

Edit: And I see you have my videos as well... XU

 

[Cride5]

Right... I know all of these tough cases and use them, that is why I said for the 4th pair alg/intuition and not just intuition like I did for the 3rd pair. The point of ZBF2L is to orient the LL edges as I'm sure you know, so I don't know how that is even remotely applicable for the ZZ method. The only thing I can think of is that when doing the EOLine you ignore the LL edges and then the number of ZBF2L would be cut in half if you count mirrors as separate algs as you wouldn't have to mirror anything since the last edge is already oriented.

Actually, I think that figure of half would probably be less than a quarter in reality. Anyhoo ... the point is that ZBF2L cases where edges are already oriented are the ones which would apply. The point about the ZBF2L algs is that the cases with LL edges already oriented preserve LL edge orientation, where normal Fridrich F2L algs would destroy edge orientation. Its deffo worth a mention because a lot of work has already gone into generating these algs, which is something that the ZZ community can tap into for free

With regards to solving the '3rd pair' ... I just need to make sure we're talking about the same thing, and you aren't thinking in terms of EOCross. When I do ZZ its broken down into two 1x2x2 blocks and two 1x1x2 blocks. For any given side, its 1x2x2 comes before the 1x1x2. If I come across a connected case after completing the 1x2x2 block, I'll just pick a different set of pieces to build the next 1x2x2. If, however I've completed the two 1x2x2 blocks and both my remaining corner-edge pairs are connected then I'll apply my connected case algs. I do this because using the free 1x1x2 slot rarely, if ever results in an optimal move count. In addition, because you already know these algs, then you should be able to rattle them off really easily.

Cride5, I'm happy you made a ZZ page for everyone. Looks very useful, I will have to read through it myself. I saw you included my WV link. ;U

It seemed before that there was no real "portal" page for ZZ containing a lot of information. Such a page exists for Petrus, Roux, and of course for Fridrich. But now there's a nice home base for ZZ

Edit: And I see you have my videos as well... XU

You're welcome! I mainly did it because I want ZZ to grow in popularity so that it can be properly compared to Fridrich. ZZ should be faster than Fridrich in theory, so let's get some practice

 

[Lord Voldemort]

Hay people! I've just finished my second all-nighter working on a ZZ cubing page. It explains EOLine and F2L in some detail, along with algs, diagrams, animations etc. Get it here:

http://cube.crider.co.uk

Let me know what you think .. if you have any comments or suggestions etc.

Now I need to get some ZZzzz's

I love the website
I have decided to go COLL over WV.
However, I have decided to skip the Sune, Anti Sune, and Double Sune sets since I'm sub one on the oll anyway. That leaves me with only 24! Yay!