[Help Thread] ZZ and ZB Discussion

[JTWong71]

Yes, I use this quite often. So building whichever one is easier is the best option?

That's what I do most of the time.
I'm just not too sure if that's the best thing for lookahead purposes when you start turning faster, at least until everything becomes algorithmic.

Some people just build a 1x2x3 Block on one side, and solve the other like Petrus's F2L Step.

 

[SpeedCubeReview]

In what way does everyone inspect the pieces? (Like look at top, then bottom, the E line.... just random?) I have yet to ever time myself in the inspection and don't plan on it for awhile.

Also, I can block build slowly, but the couple moves I feel like I am saving from just putting the cross pieces down seems insignificant, and I see a lot of people where in their solve the cross ends up being most efficient. How often are you building a block instead of the cross on regular solves?

 

[JTWong71]

In what way does everyone inspect the pieces? (Like look at top, then bottom, the E line.... just random?) I have yet to ever time myself in the inspection and don't plan on it for awhile.

Also, I can block build slowly, but the couple moves I feel like I am saving from just putting the cross pieces down seems insignificant, and I see a lot of people where in their solve the cross ends up being most efficient. How often are you building a block instead of the cross on regular solves?

What I do is is I check the Front Face First and then do an x' rotation once or twice to see the rest of the Edges. When there happens to be a lot of bad Edges, most of the time you can just do a Setup Move so that a F/B Move will solve 4 Edge's Orientation. Then I just remember those moves and look at where the other Bad Edges will end up.

For me, I try to strictly Blockbuild, but of course there is a case or two that may be better to just solve the cross piece first. Usually after the First Square you can have it offset with a L/L', R/R' Move depending on where the Square is so that it is possible to save 2 Moves from having to do a 3 Move insert, which changes it to a 1 Move insert after it's paired up, but that happens around half the time, called Openslotting.

 

[SpeedCubeReview]

What I do is is I check the Front Face First and then do an x' rotation once or twice to see the rest of the Edges. When there happens to be a lot of bad Edges, most of the time you can just do a Setup Move so that a F/B Move will solve 4 Edge's Orientation. Then I just remember those moves and look at where the other Bad Edges will end up.

For me, I try to strictly Blockbuild, but of course there is a case or two that may be better to just solve the cross piece first. Usually after the First Square you can have it offset with a L/L', R/R' Move depending on where the Square is so that it is possible to save 2 Moves from having to do a 3 Move insert, which changes it to a 1 Move insert after it's paired up, but that happens around half the time, called Openslotting.

Thank you. I think for me also I tend to go to the cross a lot (Besides that fact I've been doing that for the last 2 years) but because it makes it easier for me to look around the cube and not have an edge at the bottom of one side.

 

[JTWong71]

Thank you. I think for me also I tend to go to the cross a lot (Besides that fact I've been doing that for the last 2 years) but because it makes it easier for me to look around the cube and not have an edge at the bottom of one side.

A Reconstruction of a 10.584 Solve I got: Here
After a while you should get used to Blockbuilding to the point where it's just Recognize and Execute without thinking much at all. Knowing that the Edges are Oriented help when trying to quickly find out what to do in a Speedsolve because if I know where the Edge is, I then just need to look at the corresponding F2L Corner, and I don't have to focus on the Orientation of the Edge like in CFOP, and then likely use a rotation.

As for blind spots, after EOLine, about 1 in every 20 solves I make an XEOLine (Though not completely planned in Inspection, unless it is really easy), and so that removes a Blind spot on part of the Bottom and Back if it's on BD. Now of course when you Blockbuild, if you decide that it's more efficient for the current solve to build a Second Square without finishing the 1x2x3 Block you were working on with the First Square, then you will be left with 2 CFOP Inserts. The only thing there to make it more efficient is if you learn some Multislotting techniques.

 

[SpeedCubeReview]

So my times have gone up from 20 to around 30+ because I'm forcing myself to block build every time instead of just make the cross. That is becoming more efficient but I'm still getting stuck sometimes if I am keeping the block not oriented all the way. Sometimes it helps to keep it 90 degrees off because I can just slide the other pair in but often I find myself moving things around and then orienting the block all the way. Do you usually oriented or keep it at 90° After making it?

 

[JTWong71]

So my times have gone up from 20 to around 30+ because I'm forcing myself to block build every time instead of just make the cross. That is becoming more efficient but I'm still getting stuck sometimes if I am keeping the block not oriented all the way. Sometimes it helps to keep it 90 degrees off because I can just slide the other pair in but often I find myself moving things around and then orienting the block all the way. Do you usually oriented or keep it at 90° After making it?

Blockbuilding takes some time to get used to, even more from using CFOP for a while.

Usually when I solve the First Square I will have it Oriented 90 Degrees off, unless while I am looking ahead I cannot find much and I decide to solve the same Side's Pair, and having the Square offset will hide one of the F2L Pieces in a bad way that cannot be solved very efficiently.

When you decide to finish solving the same Side's pair with the Square already made, you will want to take advantage of the free Side to make the pair, as a Cross Edge is not stopping you from doing so.

At times when you are Openslotting it is most efficient to just solve like an F2L Pair in CFOP and Orient the Square, just as long as it creates the 3 Move Insert. Try experimenting with the cases that seem inefficient to you when Blockbuilding.

 

[TheBrutux168]

Critique please?

 

[JTWong71]

Critique please?

Right off the bat I would say your EOLine could be a little faster in terms of TPS (Partially from pausing in some solves).
In some solves, your F2L to F2L Transition has some pauses that add a couple seconds to your solves.

I may try to reconstruct some of your solves to see if there is anything that could be worked on in terms of movecount/efficiency.

Note that I average 12-14 Seconds, and I am critiquing someone who solves faster than me.

 

[TheBrutux168]

Right off the bat I would say your EOLine could be a little faster in terms of TPS (Partially from pausing in some solves).
In some solves, your F2L to F2L Transition has some pauses that add a couple seconds to your solves.

I may try to reconstruct some of your solves to see if there is anything that could be worked on in terms of movecount/efficiency.

Note that I average 12-14 Seconds, and I am critiquing someone who solves faster than me.

Thanks! I guess I need to work on my EOline and F2L transitions

 

[CubingGenius]

Does anyone have tips for practising colour neutral EOline and XEOline? I don't want to always use XEOline, I just want to learn it for the concept of better block building.

 

[Y2k1]

Does anyone have tips for practising colour neutral EOline and XEOline? I don't want to always use XEOline, I just want to learn it for the concept of better block building.

Cn eoline: understand the rules of eo well, and working with y neutrality is generally what people shoot for (though for me x neutral isn't too hard, though z is pretty difficult)

For xeoline: git luckyer

 

[CubingGenius]

Cn eoline: understand the rules of eo well, and working with y neutrality is generally what people shoot for (though for me x neutral isn't too hard, though z is pretty difficult)

Thanks, I only use yellow, orange or blue on top but any other colour for the front. I simply look at the three different edge orientations (orange/red front, blue/green front and yellow/white front), pick the easier edge orientation (depending on the location and number of the misoriented edges) and then look at the two options which will be a z/z' away from each other.

For xeoline: git luckyer

I was more interested in advice/examples for doing it every time, even if it isn't efficient, because in actual solves I will only use the efficient ones. I simply want to learn different ways/ideas to use in the solves.

 

[Y2k1]

Thanks, I only use yellow, orange or blue on top but any other colour for the front. I simply look at the three different edge orientations (orange/red front, blue/green front and yellow/white front), pick the easier edge orientation (depending on the location and number of the misoriented edges) and then look at the two options which will be a z/z' away from each other.



I was more interested in advice/examples for doing it every time, even if it isn't efficient, because in actual solves I will only use the efficient ones. I simply want to learn different ways/ideas to use in the solves.

For the xeoline, its pretty difficult to do the blocks while eo, and most don't bother trying to do it intentionally unless there is a really easy block (or its lucky). However, I am sub 18, some of the faster guys might be able to give more tips on that

 

[CubingGenius]

I now use white and yellow EOline when I solve. I am very fluent with white EOline during F2L, however, my yellow EOline tends to have more pauses. What is a good method to practice to get the yellow EOlines to at least the standard of the other one? I average around 21 seconds if that helps.

 

[pinser]

I now use white and yellow EOline when I solve. I am very fluent with white EOline during F2L, however, my yellow EOline tends to have more pauses. What is a good method to practice to get the yellow EOlines to at least the standard of the other one? I average around 21 seconds if that helps.

Do a bunch of solves yellow EOline only.

Does anyone know how many moves x2 color neutrality saves?

 

[Teoidus]

Like 1

 

[Wristlor]

I experimented with that some time ago. Being opposite-colorneutral (e.g. white and yellow) didn't seem that attractive.
Howerever being 3 colorneutral where no color is the others opposite (e.g. white, red, green) had some more benefits, since the EO changes relative to your chosen EO-Linecolor. But seeing the F2L was kinda hard for me, so i didn't stick with it.

 

[AlphaSheep]

It's so easy to influence the line during EO. I think most often the line takes me two moves. EO is the same, so it's only those two moves that you can save, but most of the time you would save one or none. Unless you can see far enough into F2L during inspection to see that a certain colour will give a better first block, I don't see any advantage. If you could plan all the way to F2L, I don't think you'd be having a problem with pauses.

 

[genericcuber666]

i think being x2 y color neutral helps if not for move count but for ergonomics and lookahead