[Help Thread] ZBLL Discussion and Help

[bilde]

For H5 I use (U) R U' L' U R D' R' U2 R D R' U2 R' U' L. Decent, but not good.

 

[DELToS]

How do people not forget ZBLL cases? like say you finished learning all of U, how do you not forget all the algs when learning, say, L?

 

[Egide]

l use the Anki app to keep refreshing my memory.

 

[Bindedsa]

How do people not forget ZBLL cases? like say you finished learning all of U, how do you not forget all the algs when learning, say, L?

Do you often forget your OLLs when learning other alg sets? It's just another alg set, if you actually know them, you won't forget them easily.

 

[Lazy Einstein]

Active youtube channel for learning ZBLL. It is good and you should all like, subscribe, and comment alg contributions.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCa36-HEemM8RyMKuuWeWb_Q

It is Egide's Channel.

 

[PurpleBanana]

Do you often forget your OLLs when learning other alg sets? It's just another alg set, if you actually know them, you won't forget them easily.

I'm almost more astonished by people's ability to remember which alg goes with each case than their ability to memorize and retain all the algs in the first place, when the distinctions between cases are so minute and there are so many which look very similar.

How many cubers actually know full ZBLL nowadays? The number used to be very small but it's now growing, I imagine.

 

[Lazy Einstein]

I'm almost more astonished by people's ability to remember which alg goes with each case than their ability to memorize and retain all the algs in the first place, when the distinctions between cases are so minute and there are so many which look very similar.

How many cubers actually know full ZBLL nowadays? The number used to be very small but it's now growing, I imagine.

Jabari, Egide, Chris Tran, CHJ. I know of two others that are close but I'll let them say when they are done. I am done Pi, H, and like 60% of S but I can't stop genning algs and just learn the sets. It is like a crack addiction. Must gen good algs for everything. anshtuetnosahueoa

 

[PurpleBanana]

Jabari, Egide, Chris Tran, CHJ. I know of two others that are close but I'll let them say when they are done. I am done Pi, H, and like 60% of S but I can't stop genning algs and just learn the sets. It is like a crack addiction. Must gen good algs for everything. anshtuetnosahueoa

S means sune, I presume? Just out of curiosity: with COLL it's common to learn sune and antisune sets last, since they are the least useful and have the worst algorithms. Is that not the case with ZBLL?

 

[PurpleBanana]

Jabari, Egide, Chris Tran, CHJ. I know of two others that are close but I'll let them say when they are done.

Right, and addition to the people that have actually managed to get the whole thing under their belts, there are a lot more top speedcubers nowadays who know significant portions of it. I think Feliks Zemdegs knows most of it, Chris Olson knows several sets, Pleskowicz, Dieckmann, etc. It's becoming more and more mainstream. Less than a decade ago the thought of anyone actually learning full ZBLL was nothing more than a dream. How fast things change.

 

[Lazy Einstein]

S means sune, I presume? Just out of curiosity: with COLL it's common to learn sune and antisune sets last, since they are the least useful and have the worst algorithms. Is that not the case with ZBLL?

That is how people think about it usually. I am learning from most to least disoriented corners because I find them harder to recognize. So when I finish learning ZBLL I will have the most practice on the harder to recognize subsets. I am learning H, Pi, S, AS, L, T, U

 

[Saransh Grover]

Right, and addition to the people that have actually managed to get the whole thing under their belts, there are a lot more top speedcubers nowadays who know significant portions of it. I think Feliks Zemdegs knows most of it, Chris Olson knows several sets, Pleskowicz, Dieckmann, etc. It's becoming more and more mainstream. Less than a decade ago the thought of anyone actually learning full ZBLL was nothing more than a dream. How fast things change.

Thats probably because back then there weren't as many resources as we have. I wonder if there will be a time when it will be normal to start by learning 2 Look ll and then move to zbll or another 1LLL

 

[OLLiver]

Thats probably because back then there weren't as many resources as we have. I wonder if there will be a time when it will be normal to start by learning 2 Look ll and then move to zbll or another 1LLL

Hey my favourite thread got bumped
Some thoughts by someone who knows ~310 ZBLLs
1, yes its becoming more mainstream but only for serious people. Maintaining an alg set this large requires more practice than a few solves throughout the day.
2, full 1LLL is even more crazy. Learning ~4000 algs plus practicing recog, recall etc is far more effort than 99.9999% of people will ever put into speed cubing.
3, I don't think Feliks know most of it. He know the cases with easy recog and the T set ~150 algs I think but correct me if I'm wrong.
4, I would recommend most people try to learn some of it. It helps with recognises patterns and overall the general knowledge gained can be invaluable.

 

[mrkgnao]

Okay, I need a bit of help here. I haven't cubed in about a year or so.

I want to relearn ZZ, y-axis CN, for OH, like I used to. What's the standard last layer method that you people recommend to newbies these days? Also, links to nice OH last layer algsets would be nice!

I knew two COLL sets back then, but now I don't even remember the cross OLLs now

 

[shadowslice e]

Okay, I need a bit of help here. I haven't cubed in about a year or so.

I want to relearn ZZ, y-axis CN, for OH, like I used to. What's the standard last layer method that you people recommend to newbies these days? Also, links to nice OH last layer algsets would be nice!

I knew two COLL sets back then, but now I don't even remember the cross OLLs now

I think most people use COLL/EPLL because it's nicer algs for OH though OCLL/PLL may be good for 2H

 

[Daniel Lin]

ok so here is the approach that I've taken to learning ZBLL(i know 150+ algs) and it might be a useful idea for some people. This is for when you've already learned full OLL/PLL and COLL. This does not include sune/antisune ZBLLs.

1. learn 2GLL. For most cases you just need to memorize the angle (AUF)you execute it from and if its a sune/antisune/backsune/backantisune. next do a U move and another type of sune, which you can figure out on the spot and don't need to memorize while learning. There are some random 2GLLs that aren't sune combos, but they're very simple and the easiest way to remember them is by tracking F2L pairs.

2. learn the first 12 T cases and mirror them. learn the first 12 U cases and mirror them. All the inverse algs are L cases

3.learn the first 12 Pi cases and invert them to get H cases. Learn the next 12 Pi cases and invert them to get H cases.

These first three steps take very little effort but cover a LOT of cases. I think it can be done in less than a week. At this point you will be exactly halfway through T, U, Pi, and H and 5/6 done with L. You can start using ZBLL in most of your solves.

4. Learn diagonal swap ZBLLs. This is useful because the COLLs for these tend to suck the most. You will be done with the L set and H set.

5. Learn the remaining 24 T cases and 24 U cases. Learn 12 more pi cases and their inverses

6. Done

 

[Ksh13]

Hello, I plan on learning full ZBLL and I got a few questions. First though, I will just briefly say how I plan on doing it and why. So basically, it is mainly for OH purposes (also plan on learning VHLS and eventually some ZBLS), since I really enjoy the event. The thing that really got me inspired to do it though was Egide's channel, I discovered it a few weeks ago and really enjoy his videos. I already know basically full COLL, I just lack a few AS cases but I'll pick those up sometime soon. I plan on doing a pretty systematical approach, doing all the sets in order, and do the different CP subsets in order as well. I have barely started working on U, got done with the 2GLL set for it like a week ago. Working on the E6 set now. I hope to be done by the end of the year.

As for the questions, is it considered okay to just use mirrors and inverses for as many cases as possible, or is it recommended to just always find the best alg for you out there although it takes longer?

Do you have any specific tips or tricks for learning ZBLL that you learned during the process that you wish you knew before you started?

Is there some obvious flaw to my approach that makes you think "oh god do not do that" that I have missed?

 

[mjm]

ok so here is the approach that I've taken to learning ZBLL(i know 150+ algs) and it might be a useful idea for some people. This is for when you've already learned full OLL/PLL and COLL. This does not include sune/antisune ZBLLs.

1. learn 2GLL. For most cases you just need to memorize the angle (AUF)you execute it from and if its a sune/antisune/backsune/backantisune. next do a U move and another type of sune, which you can figure out on the spot and don't need to memorize while learning. There are some random 2GLLs that aren't sune combos, but they're very simple and the easiest way to remember them is by tracking F2L pairs.

2. learn the first 12 T cases and mirror them. learn the first 12 U cases and mirror them. All the inverse algs are L cases

3.learn the first 12 Pi cases and invert them to get H cases. Learn the next 12 Pi cases and invert them to get H cases.

These first three steps take very little effort but cover a LOT of cases. I think it can be done in less than a week. At this point you will be exactly halfway through T, U, Pi, and H and 5/6 done with L. You can start using ZBLL in most of your solves.

4. Learn diagonal swap ZBLLs. This is useful because the COLLs for these tend to suck the most. You will be done with the L set and H set.

5. Learn the remaining 24 T cases and 24 U cases. Learn 12 more pi cases and their inverses

6. Done

Whoa, does this actually account for every alg?

What do people who are well-acquainted with ZBLL think of this?
I like the idea a lot but is it a good idea to just learn the inverses of a given alg, or would it be better to learn the best alg for each case?

This seems like a great approach, and if I took this route to learn it, would it be adequately fast as opposed to learning the very best alg that I can find for every case?

 

[Daniel Lin]

. I plan on doing a pretty systematical approach, doing all the sets in order, and do the different CP subsets in order as well.

The method i suggested is basically learning by CP subsets. I think this is better than learning by corner cases(T, then U, then L, then Pi..) because it lets you learn all the easy algs first.

Do you have any specific tips or tricks for learning ZBLL that you learned during the process that you wish you knew before you started?

Chris Tran, who knows full ZB, talked about some in his seminar.
One trick is not learning the second half of algs. The last 5 or 6 moves of an algorithm can be figured out intuitively, so you don't have to memorize them. Of course, if you were at a competition solving, you wouldn't be able to do this, but this is just a trick for while you are learning it.
Another trick is identifying triggers,as You probably already know. Like RUR'U' and R'FRF' and RUR'F' and R'D'RU2R'DR2UR'

Whoa, does this actually account for every alg?

Not the sunes/antisunes. A sune or antisune takes less than a second to execute, so these ZBLLs are pretty pointless.

This seems like a great approach, and if I took this route to learn it, would it be adequately fast as opposed to learning the very best alg that I can find for every case?

I would suggest learning mirrors/inverses first and then finding better algs when you know a lot because if you don't it will take much longer. Mirrors are theoretically just as fast and take almost no effort to learn, so why not use them? Inverses I understand can be difficult to find, so you might want to learn specific algs for those.

 

[sub20oneday]

i want to join the zbll train or atleast learn zzll but how do you link recogniton to an alg i have problems with this when i try to learn more than 2 algs a day also whatr would be better is phasing really so bad

 

[Daniel Lin]

i want to join the zbll train or atleast learn zzll but how do you link recogniton to an alg i have problems with this when i try to learn more than 2 algs a day also whatr would be better is phasing really so bad

Recognition for ZBLL isn't that hard. You have to know CP recognition very well, so if you don't know COLL make sure you learn that first. For EP reco, I would suggest learning the Jason-Baum recognition system. There is a nice explanation of it here https://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/ZBLL#Edge_recognition. The way i practice ZBLL algs is I do each algorithm in a set in order. Each COLL case has 12 algs, so I do all twelve of them starting from C/C, C/A, and C/O to C/OX, O/CX and Oppx. I time the time it takes me to execute them all to make sure I can recall them quickly and fingertrick them easily.