[Help Thread] Roux Discussion and Help

5BLD said:
Sometimes it uses more moves. I know a lot of cases of UFUB as sorta, "special cases" where i think of it as doing both step 4b and 4c at the same time. A setup, so that when I do solve the ULUR the rest will be solved.

I tried not to do UFUB in the beginning because some cases use more moves than ULUR- even more so if you mess up the (harder) recognition. I do have an issue with your "sometimes more, sometimes less" idea. Does this mean you don't know which cases will use more and which ones will use less?
Click to expand...

Well, as I said I use UL/UR most of the time. I'd only do UF/UB if I UL/UR looks horrible or UF/UB looks really easy.

I guess I don't think too much about how it affects 4c.

Could you share some of your special cases? Maybe a video?

Edit: I suppose this is a bit different to what I said in the first post, since now I'm saying I'd really just use it for the nice cases. I guess I'm just saying that having it as a choice gives you an advantage sometimes.
 
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Tao Yu said:
I was surprised that you guys don't do a combination of UF/UB and UL/UR like I do. I thought everyone did a combination of the two.

I honestly think there is no problem whatsoever with recog. And as for movecount, it's sometimes more and sometimes less, and pretty much the same most of the time. Just like choosing one block over another; you try to guess which one is faster.

I do think that exclusively doing UF/UB would be slower than exclusively doing UL/UR though. I find I do UL/UR most of the time as well.
Click to expand...

I honestly think there's a slight problem with recog when doing UB and UF (but nothing too difficult) because like I said earlier, you can't cheat by simply tracking one sticker (per piece). Instead, you have to make sure the piece actually has your U face color as well since the DF And DB edges also have your front and back face colors.

Movecount (just for UF UB placement) isn't all too bad. Isn't it identical to UL UR placement? After that is where some extra moves occur. But like I said before, maybe some tricks to influence UL and UR into the M-slice (M2 away from solved) could help.

Edit: So great, a couple hours ago I posted some examples for those still confused. Now they seem to be missing :(
 
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Yay, new PB again!

Out of 60 solves:

Avg50: 14.34 (PB by 0.05!)
Avg12: 13.42
Avg5: 12.94
Best: 11.38

Still had a lot of aweful solves. I need to work on my consistency. But I'm glad that slowly I'm making progress - not some time ago it was hard to do sub15 solves, now most of my solves are 13-14-ish. Any time I sit down and do like 50 solves, almost certainly there is a sub14 of avg12. So, a sub-14 global average seems reachable.

Working on my LSE recognition. I want to get rid of that D side peeking... Tracking DF/DB pieces seems much easier than guessing the UB sticker.
Also working on my FB foreplanning. Still can't plan the full block in most of the time, but at least I can predict the positions of the last pair elements after the 1x2x2 block.

...the rest of the solve seems pretty decent for now.

From my previous state (15-ish), the highest jump was definitely provided by the lookahead practice during the blocks.
 
Renslay said:
Yay, new PB again!

Out of 60 solves:

Avg50: 14.34 (PB by 0.05!)
Avg12: 13.42
Avg5: 12.94
Best: 11.38

Still had a lot of aweful solves. I need to work on my consistency. But I'm glad that slowly I'm making progress - not some time ago it was hard to do sub15 solves, now most of my solves are 13-14-ish. Any time I sit down and do like 50 solves, almost certainly there is a sub14 of avg12. So, a sub-14 global average seems reachable.

Working on my LSE recognition. I want to get rid of that D side peeking... Tracking DF/DB pieces seems much easier than guessing the UB sticker.
Also working on my FB foreplanning. Still can't plan the full block in most of the time, but at least I can predict the positions of the last pair elements after the 1x2x2 block.

...the rest of the solve seems pretty decent for now.

From my previous state (15-ish), the highest jump was definitely provided by the lookahead practice during the blocks.
Click to expand...

when i'm not really concentrating, i don't really plan out the first block. i find that if you actually try to plan the whole first block, it is easier than you think and it helps your times more than you think.
 
Holy macarena!

New single PB: 10.11!

And it was daaaamn looong!

Scramble:
U2 F2 L' R2 D2 R2 B2 R F2 L U2 F R U' F2 D2 L2 D B U L'

y' z'
D R' D D U r' U (R' M' x') F //10/10
R U r U2 R U' r' U R' U' r U r' //13/23
U' R U R' U R U2 R' //8/31
M' U2 M' U2 M' U M' U M' U2 M' U M2' U U2 M U2 M' //18/49
alg.cubing.net

49 STM... 4.8 TPS?! Wha?

Ohmygosh, the old one was older than the internet... :o

EDIT:

New PBs! Yaaaay!

Avg100: 14.52 (PB by 0.14!)
Avg50: 14.25 (PB by 0.09!)
Avg12: 13.28
Avg5: 12.83
Best: 10.11 (PB by 0.05!)

Sorry for being so enthusiastic for all these records, but I do Roux and speedcubing for soooo long (since 2005... ugh), it feels so good that my times slowly drops from practically day to day! \o/ And still lot to learn and practice!

And I hope that I might inspire others to go practice and enjoy Roux! :)
 
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So I've been practicing with this different LSE combo that has been discussed (the UF UB first) and just as I suspected, I'm experiencing problems with recog/tracking of UF and UB pieces. Of course, this could be the result of being used to UL UR or me making things harder than needed. Anybody experiencing the same stuff? Especially Tao Yu, how did you fare with integrating this alternative method into your solving?
 
chimchu said:
guys i have a tutorial video that might help. i really need feedback on it as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdU6tnQ3ycM&list=UUGLFekh3HBgjkkxnqqBW3Sw
Click to expand...

I think you need to do Roux some more before doing a tutorial honestly. You are teaching a very inefficient form and stumbling through it quite a bit. cross + corners is a really really bad way to do the first block. I like the intention, but it is pretty pointless to learn Roux if you are just going to do CFOP style anyway.

It's a good introduction to the roux steps, but not a good introduction to how to properly conceptualize the Roux method.
 
Could you roux experts critique my slow solves? I am transitioning from CFOP (sub-20) to roux (sub-40 ish, still learning the ropes). I like to solve with white or yellow on top and green or blue on left.
I did my scrambles with white on U and red on F but I suppose it doesn't matter.

Scramble 1: U2 F2 L' D2 L' F2 L2 R D2 F2 U2 B' D2 L' R' B U' B2 R2 F2
Inspection: y2 x'
First Block: R U' B F R2 M U M' F'
Second Block: U' D' R U' R' D R' U R U2 M Rw' U' Rw
2 Look CMLL: U R' F R B' R' F' R B U2 (T-Perm)
EO: U' M' U' M U' M' U' M'
Left/Right: U' M' U2 M' U
Last 4: U2 M' U2 M' U2 M' U2 M'

Scramble 2: L2 U2 L2 F2 L2 U2 R2 D L2 R2 U' F' L B F' U L U F2 L' R2
Inspection: z2
First Block: B2 M U2 Rw F' R U2 B
Second Block: Rw U R U M U' M' R2 U' R' M' R' U R
2 Look CMLL: (Sune) (T-Perm)
EO: U' M' U' M U M' U' M'
Left/Right: U2 M' U2 M U2 M2 U'
Last 4: M2 U2 M' U2 M'

Scramble 3: L2 D2 F2 L2 R2 F2 U' B2 U' B' L D' R2 D' R2 F2 L2 U F2
Inspection: z2
First Block: D R U M L' U L R' U M U2 B
Second Block: Rw2 U R2 U' Rw U' Rw' R' U R U' Rw' U Rw
2 Look CMLL: F R U R' U' F' (Y-Perm)
EO: U2 M' U' M'
Left/Right: M2 U' M' U2 M' U2 M2 U
Last 4: skip
 
Can anyobody explain to me the types of color neutrality with Roux? I have no idea what x2/y and x/y2 etc means. What would be best for me? I am Full CN with CFOP.
 
PJKCuber said:
Can anyobody explain to me the types of color neutrality with Roux? I have no idea what x2/y and x/y2 etc means. What would be best for me? I am Full CN with CFOP.
Click to expand...

x2/y color neutrality means if you can solve with one type of color blocks, then you can also chose your first block as if you "rotate" that colors according to x2 and y (or any combination of those).

So, let's say by default you can solve it with left block colors as white on bottom, green left.
If you are x2 neutral, you can also build the left block with colors yellow bottom, green left (the "colors" are rotated with x2).
If you are furthermore x2/y color neutral, your left color blocks can be: white or yellow on bottom, and any color on left. I think this is the most common type of color neutrality for those who swithed from CFOP.

x/y2 color neutrality is similar. If your default block colors are white bottom, green left, then you can build the left block from any color on bottom, and green/blue left.

For example, I am x2/y2 color neutral (which is less powerful than x/y2 or x2/y) with red bottom, white left. That means my block colors can be:
- red bottom, white left
- red bottom, yellow left
- orange bottom, white left
- orange bottom, yellow left
 
syzygy13 said:
Could you roux experts critique my slow solves? I am transitioning from CFOP (sub-20) to roux (sub-40 ish, still learning the ropes). I like to solve with white or yellow on top and green or blue on left.
I did my scrambles with white on U and red on F but I suppose it doesn't matter.

Scramble 1: U2 F2 L' D2 L' F2 L2 R D2 F2 U2 B' D2 L' R' B U' B2 R2 F2
Inspection: y2 x'
First Block: R U' B F R2 M U M' F'
Second Block: U' D' R U' R' D R' U R U2 M Rw' U' Rw
2 Look CMLL: U R' F R B' R' F' R B U2 (T-Perm)
EO: U' M' U' M U' M' U' M'
Left/Right: U' M' U2 M' U
Last 4: U2 M' U2 M' U2 M' U2 M'

Scramble 2: L2 U2 L2 F2 L2 U2 R2 D L2 R2 U' F' L B F' U L U F2 L' R2
Inspection: z2
First Block: B2 M U2 Rw F' R U2 B
Second Block: Rw U R U M U' M' R2 U' R' M' R' U R
2 Look CMLL: (Sune) (T-Perm)
EO: U' M' U' M U M' U' M'
Left/Right: U2 M' U2 M U2 M2 U'
Last 4: M2 U2 M' U2 M'

Scramble 3: L2 D2 F2 L2 R2 F2 U' B2 U' B' L D' R2 D' R2 F2 L2 U F2
Inspection: z2
First Block: D R U M L' U L R' U M U2 B
Second Block: Rw2 U R2 U' Rw U' Rw' R' U R U' Rw' U Rw
2 Look CMLL: F R U R' U' F' (Y-Perm)
EO: U2 M' U' M'
Left/Right: M2 U' M' U2 M' U2 M2 U
Last 4: skip
Click to expand...

First solve:
Better first block: F r' B' U' r F'
D moves during second block? Strange and usually uncomfortable. I wouldn't use them unless it cuts a LOT.
Alternative: R2 U2 R U2 r R U M' U2 R' U r
The first part of your LSE seems good, but why that long last step? Step 4c should be no more than 5 moves! In this case, instead of U2 M' U2 M' U2 M' U2 M', use M' U2 M' U2 M2.

Second solve:
The blocks seems okay. With lookahead, thy to merge R' M' R' into Rw R.
LSE: the EO is okay, but for the rest, there is a shortcut in inserting Left/Right.
Here, the full LSE:
EO: U' M' U' M U M' U' M'
Left/Right: U2 M U2 M' U' (note that in the end, U' = U U2, merging with the last step)
Last 4: M U2 M

Third solve:
Long first block. Try to minimize your turns. In here, I would do (with the same colors):
x2 y
B U F' u M r' F
Second block: I would use r' U' M U R' U' R' U' M2 U2 r' U' r, but yours it good too.
Your LSE is strange. Did you force that skip, or you chose a long start unwillingly, and had luck in the end? Because you can solve the first part in a better way (although in that way you won't have a skip):
U2 M' U' M
U' M U2 M U'
E2 M' E2 M

or:
U2 M' U M'
U' M' U2 M' U
M U2 M U2 M2

Summary:
Your blocks seems decent. Need some work on the first block (try to do them in less than 10 moves for all cases), but you are in the good way. Your second block seems pretty good.
Your LSE needs some work too. Try to solve the last part in 3-5 moves and no more. Also, practice the left/right insertion, and try to merge it with the EO.
And of course, learn CMLL. :)

If you are sub40-ish with Roux, then lookahead and foreplanning is the most critical part for you now (especially during the blocks, I guess).
 
PJKCuber said:
Ok ya so I'll be x2/y CN.
Click to expand...

If you weren't CN neutral with CFOP, that could be a little difficult. My advice (I'm not great at this, but this is how I was told to do it) if to take a day, and do not use whatever colors you're using now, only the colors you want to add (I was y neutral with white on bottom, so I took a day and did only Y neutral with yellow on bottom). If it's still not comfortable after that, do it again. Keep going until it becomes comfortable, and then just practice, and if you notice that you're favoring one over the other, even when the other has better First Blocks, do it again. Eventually, doing it from any orientation within your color neutrality will feel completely normal.
 
supercavitation said:
If you weren't CN neutral with CFOP, that could be a little difficult. My advice (I'm not great at this, but this is how I was told to do it) if to take a day, and do not use whatever colors you're using now, only the colors you want to add (I was y neutral with white on bottom, so I took a day and did only Y neutral with yellow on bottom). If it's still not comfortable after that, do it again. Keep going until it becomes comfortable, and then just practice, and if you notice that you're favoring one over the other, even when the other has better First Blocks, do it again. Eventually, doing it from any orientation within your color neutrality will feel completely normal.
Click to expand...
I am CN with CFOP.
 
supercavitation said:
If you weren't CN neutral with CFOP, that could be a little difficult. My advice (I'm not great at this, but this is how I was told to do it) if to take a day, and do not use whatever colors you're using now, only the colors you want to add (I was y neutral with white on bottom, so I took a day and did only Y neutral with yellow on bottom). If it's still not comfortable after that, do it again. Keep going until it becomes comfortable, and then just practice, and if you notice that you're favoring one over the other, even when the other has better First Blocks, do it again. Eventually, doing it from any orientation within your color neutrality will feel completely normal.
Click to expand...

I think this is better for non-CN CFOP people actually. Doing white or yellow on bottom just like cross and LL in CFOP.
 
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