[Help Thread] Colour Neutral Discussion and Help

Awesome, Marcel!

CN Training Day 19 (red)

I actually didn't do anything yesterday (Day 18) really. It was a busy day and I was also exhausted. Oh well.

Best Ao5 = 17.22
Best Ao12 = 18.30

Out of 30 full solves. It was frustrating at first during warm up though. But after that, this is pretty good. I still have two days of red.

I am very curious how your times will be when youd start mixing all colors. Then you will have the true advantage of easy crosses. You btw are way more discipined in the training. I skipped yellow training, did 5 days green, 4 days blue, few days red and then started to do just all colors. I was just too impatient to do 5 days training of each color. It has really worked out for me. In less than 6 weeks I have become true color neutral. I just did an Ao50 CN and an Ao50 on white cross yesterday evening. White was 29.87 and CN was 30.49. The difference was less than one second. I will not return to white crosses anymore.

MarcelP said:

I am very curious how your times will be when youd start mixing all colors. Then you will have the true advantage of easy crosses. You btw are way more discipined in the training. I skipped yellow training, did 5 days green, 4 days blue, few days red and then started to do just all colors. I was just too impatient to do 5 days training of each color. It has really worked out for me. In less than 6 weeks I have become true color neutral. I just did an Ao50 CN and an Ao50 on white cross yesterday evening. White was 29.87 and CN was 30.49. The difference was less than one second. I will not return to white crosses anymore.

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Awesome! You got it finally!

MarcelP said:

I am very curious how your times will be when youd start mixing all colors. Then you will have the true advantage of easy crosses. You btw are way more discipined in the training. I skipped yellow training, did 5 days green, 4 days blue, few days red and then started to do just all colors. I was just too impatient to do 5 days training of each color. It has really worked out for me. In less than 6 weeks I have become true color neutral. I just did an Ao50 CN and an Ao50 on white cross yesterday evening. White was 29.87 and CN was 30.49. The difference was less than one second. I will not return to white crosses anymore.

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Yeah, I really don't know what it will be like when I do all colours. Not sure how much advantage easy crosses will be. I don't consider myself weak with crosses though I think I have a weakness on the cross to first F2L pair transition. I should figure out first pair during inspection too, but I wonder how long inspection would take me. I don't know if I'm very disciplined. Once in awhile I "cheat" and do a white cross solve even though I don't do more than 2 every couple days which is really nothing. One strange thing is that I sometimes unknowingly do green crosses. That is, since I worked on green I sometimes do them accidentally during the blue days or now during the red days.

You are doing awesome with being colour neutral, Marcel. Me, I have yet to decide.

I think this is an appropriate thread for this. For those going CN, the cross can be a pain because the natural tendency is to try to remember the order of the colors around the cube for each orientation. I have been CN for years and have still not bothered to learn the order of the colors, because it is not necessary. If you want to do it that way, that's okay, but you can save yourself from a lot of boring memorizing with this simple tip.




An example, scrambled with green on front and white on top.

U' R' L' F U' B2 D F2 D' R D B2 D2 R2 L2 U' R' B' L D2 B' D2 U F' D'
Reverse to solve: D F U' D2 B D2 L' B R U L2 R2 D2 B2 D' R' D F2 D' B2 U F' L R U

There are two correctly oriented yellow edges on the yellow face, making that enticing small L shape. However, these two edges are obviously not correct relative to one another when you look at the centers above them.

Looking at the blue cross, there is one blue edge oriented correctly on the blue face, and the orange/blue edge can be placed beside in on one half turn of the white face. Does it go there? Look at the diagonals in the form of a/b and c/d from the image above, and you'll see that the white center is diagonal from the yellow edge, therefore the orange center should be diagonal from the orange edge, and that means the orange edge would be correctly placed in that half turn of the white face. From there, the position of the other two edges is obvious from opposite colors. The white/blue edge goes opposite the yellow/blue, and the red/blue goes opposite the orange/blue. One possible solution is, with green on the front and red on top: M2 D' l D.


The information in the image is to help a CN solver instantly know where the edges are to be placed relative to one another intuitively, without having to memorize color belts. Actually figuring out the cross is still the same deal, but with a little practice you won't need to think about color orders at all during the cross, you will just see intuitively which edge goes where.

Wow i didn't know there was a training system AND a thread dedicated to colour neutrality. Personally i just solved on all colours and after a week or so i become cn.

Day 21 (red)

Best Ao5 = 16.00
Best Ao12 = 17.39

Really happy about those times. It's even better than my last day training blue. But maybe I'm just having a good day. Well, cubing-wise I mean. Because physically I am still exhausted and not feeling that well. I didn't do any full solves yesterday, just a lot of F2L only. Tomorrow is the first day of orange. After 5 days of that it will be all colours except white (my original colour). I'm curious about my white cross times.

Wow, the Ao5 is nice.. I think you will not notice any difference on orange. Maybe only slightly better times. I have half bright stickers and orange stands out more than red so I find orange solves easier than red solves. I don't think you must worry about white times. Your CN times are so good. I highly doubt that your white times have decreased. And if so, it takes less than 5 training days to pick that up again. LOL..

I've been too lazy doing colour neutral solves lately. I'm most comfortable with white and yellow at the moment.

Yellow > White > Orange > Blue > Green > Red

White: 21.17 (σ = 2.77)

19.62, 24.37, (18.63), (24.98), 19.51

Yellow: 20.62 (σ = 1.63)

(24.69), 19.41, 22.48, 19.97, (15.38)

Green: 24.12 (σ = 0.55)

24.57, 23.50, (21.79), 24.29, (26.72)

Blue: 22.71 (σ = 2.42)

20.24, 22.82, 25.08, (28.43), (19.75)

Red: 24.90 (σ = 3.31)

(33.43), 28.67, 22.48, (22.42), 23.54

Orange: 22.39, (19.17), 25.42, 22.63, (30.21)

22.39, (19.17), 25.42, 22.63, (30.21)

Total: 23.04 (σ = 2.69)

Best: 15.38
Worst: 33.43

Just a little tip, I changed my stickerless guhong v1 to the Japanese colour scheme which surprisingly helped a lot. It forces you to do f2l with pairs you aren't comfortable with, regardless of the cross.

Clarkeeyyy said:

Just a little tip, I changed my stickerless guhong v1 to the Japanese colour scheme which surprisingly helped a lot. It forces you to do f2l with pairs you aren't comfortable with, regardless of the cross.

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I've heard that from other people aswell. I am already CN, but somebody (two Non-CN persons) could compare the speed of becoming CN on the "normal way" and the "japanese" way.

MarcelP said:

Wow, the Ao5 is nice.. I think you will not notice any difference on orange. Maybe only slightly better times. I have half bright stickers and orange stands out more than red so I find orange solves easier than red solves. I don't think you must worry about white times. Your CN times are so good. I highly doubt that your white times have decreased. And if so, it takes less than 5 training days to pick that up again. LOL..

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Interesting. I was just going to comment on something similar. On orange especially, I notice I have better times more easily with my Guhong than my stickerless Zhanchi. That's because on my stickerless, orange is... well, just the normal stickerless orange colour and on my Guhong I have a fluorescent orange which sticks out more. I definitely notice that it's much easier to spot. This makes me wonder if it isn't better to stick with certain colours because they just stick out more and naturally can be faster. Although it's a bit hard to say because I did green before blue, I think blue sticks out more to my eye than green does. But I don't really know. For red, it sticks out more on my stickerless than on my Guhong though.

CN Training Day 23 (orange)

Really didn't get to do much yesterday and today. Well partly I'm busy trying to finish up F2L only for the marathon so I've been concentrating on F2L only and not doing much full solves. Plus I'm dead tired and exhausted lately and feeling generally crummy.

Best Ao5 = 17.22
Best Ao12 = 18.80

CN Training Day 24 (orange)

Two more days of orange to go (Day 25 and 26). I didn't do very much today either (no full timed solves). Weekends are just busier than weekdays for me for some reason. Besides still feeling rather tired. But I think my F2L only solves are better. I think that since I started solving on different colours, it gets easier every time I have to switch to the next colour. Instead of having a brain that sees white and then everything else, it just sees everything and relatively easily filters out the one I happen to be on. It will be interesting when I do all colours (except white) and then eventually all colours including white because then I will see about choosing the best cross. Hopefully I have some time starting about Day 27 to check out X-cross. This should work out pretty nicely with the 4219.5 marathon I'm doing because that should only last until about then.

CN Training Day 26 (orange)

I must say orange has been rather disappointing. I don't know why. My F2L only times are ok for orange but when I go to full solves it fails. So frustrating.

Best Ao5 = 18.00
Best Ao12 = 19.29

This is worse than what I had a few days ago for some odd reason. Tomorrow is supposed to be everything but white (my original colour) I think. But I'm going to get a sub-18 Ao12 with orange first.

sneaklyfox said:

This is worse than what I had a few days ago for some odd reason.

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Cubing is just like that. I have had a few sub 30 Ao-hundreds on CN. Two days ago I could not get a sub 32 Ao12.. I just focus on somthing else and on a different day I try again. Right now OLL's have my attention. I am at 37/57 allready. But it seems the more I know the more algs I mix up LOL..

MarcelP said:

Cubing is just like that. I have had a few sub 30 Ao-hundreds on CN. Two days ago I could not get a sub 32 Ao12.. I just focus on somthing else and on a different day I try again. Right now OLL's have my attention. I am at 37/57 allready. But it seems the more I know the more algs I mix up LOL..

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That does tend to happen. The more algs there are, the easier to mix them up. I would constantly review the ones I already know and not learn new ones until I'm good with the ones already learned. There were a few that always gave me some problems though. There is still an N-perm that I always mess up on during execution.

CN Training Day 27 (orange)

I extended one more day of orange because I was doing so horribly. Could be that the last couple of days I've been concentrating on trying to finish up the marathon. I just finished it tonight so tomorrow I should have a lot more time to do full solves and get a good average.

Best Ao5 = 17.05
Best Ao12 = 18.12

This is much better. Still not sub-18 Ao12 but good enough I guess. Tomorrow I'll do all colours except white.

sneaklyfox said:

Tomorrow I'll do all colours except white.

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Great! I am looking foward to you report. Maybe you could do an Ao100. I am really curious about that. Best Ao12 does not mean that much to me. Ao100 tells you way more imho