[Help Thread] FMC Discussion

DavidWoner said:

My super unlucky solution for second scramble at US Nats

Scramble: D U' B2 U2 L2 U2 L D B' F D2 B' D U R U2 B2 U

2x2x2: D' L' D L D L D' [7/7] (I know there were a few 5 movers but I was curious about this one)
psuedoF2L-1: B R L U' L' R U [7/14]
some stuff: B R2 [2/16]
leave 3 corners: R' D' R D2 B D' B' [7/23-1]
3cycle: D L2 D R' D' L2 D R D2 [9/32-1]

Resulting in 31 moves. Unless I am grossly mistaken there is not a single 8 move insertion possible. I wasted a lot of time checking this because I have never heard of such a thing happening. Of course it is theoretically possible but I just figured that it was so improbable that I would never encounter it. I was so furious that I couldn't manage to write down my solution properly and took the DNF, even though I *should* have easily gotten a 29 or better.

Am I mistaken or is 31 moves really the best result possible for that skeleton? Has anyone else experienced this?

Click to expand...

See my post. I've experienced both 9-move cancellation and 9-move insertion.

Just got this scramble in qqtimer: R2 L2 D L2 U R2 L D2 L' F' B' U2 B D2 B' U' F2 L2 U' D R U R' D' L'

I'm curious to see what you guys can do.

Decided I wanted to practice

Scramble: D' B2 R F U' L' F' B2 L' U' F U' L F' R2 U2 B D2 R2 U2 D B2 U B' U'
Inverse Scramble: U B U' B2 D' U2 R2 D2 B' U2 R2 F L' U F' U L B2 F L U F' R' B2 D

2x2x2: U2 L2 B' L
2x2x3: F' R' F D2 R2 D

Apply premove D' R2 D2 F' R F L' B L2 U2 to inverse scramble

F2L-1: D R D'
F2L: R' F D R2 D'

Apply premove D R2 D' F' R D R' D' to regular scramble

2x2x2: U2 L2 B' L [4/4]
2x2x3: F' R' F D2 R2 D [6/10]
F2L: F [1/11]
COLL: F D2 R' D2 R D2 R F' B R2 B' [11/22-1]
undo premove: D R2 D' F' R D R' D' [8/30-1]

Solution: U2 L2 B' L F' R' F D2 R2 D F2 D2 R' D2 R D2 R F' B R2 B' D R2 D' F' R D R' D'

29 moves. Not enough time for anything more elegant. Double NISS was fun though

DavidWoner said:

Decided I wanted to practice

Scramble: D' B2 R F U' L' F' B2 L' U' F U' L F' R2 U2 B D2 R2 U2 D B2 U B' U'
Inverse Scramble: U B U' B2 D' U2 R2 D2 B' U2 R2 F L' U F' U L B2 F L U F' R' B2 D

2x2x2: U2 L2 B' L
2x2x3: F' R' F D2 R2 D

Apply premove D' R2 D2 F' R F L' B L2 U2 to inverse scramble

F2L-1: D R D'
F2L: R' F D R2 D'

Apply premove D R2 D' F' R D R' D' to regular scramble

2x2x2: U2 L2 B' L [4/4]
2x2x3: F' R' F D2 R2 D [6/10]
F2L: F [1/11]
COLL: F D2 R' D2 R D2 R F' B R2 B' [11/22-1]
undo premove: D R2 D' F' R D R' D' [8/30-1]

Solution: U2 L2 B' L F' R' F D2 R2 D F2 D2 R' D2 R D2 R F' B R2 B' D R2 D' F' R D R' D'

29 moves. Not enough time for anything more elegant. Double NISS was fun though

Click to expand...

Thank you for typing that all out! As a beginner to FMC, I see you guys saying all this stuff about the inverse and then premoves and I was getting uber confused...but with this post, I actually understand what to do now!

Here's one I did yesterday...pretty much pure CFOP...

Scramble: F' U' D L' D F D' B2 F' U F2 B2 U R L' U D F2 U' D' R L2 U R L2

F' L F R2 L U' R' F D2 F' L2 // 2x2x3
R' D' R F2 D2 F' D F D' F D F' D F D F2// F2L plus setup into OLL
R' F L' F' R F L D // SKIP!!!! gogogogo done!

35 moves...that's the best I've done so far...really lucky...I hope to learn more and get better!

DavidWoner said:

Scramble: D' B2 R F U' L' F' B2 L' U' F U' L F' R2 U2 B D2 R2 U2 D B2 U B' U'

Click to expand...

This looks kinda nice:
Pseudo 2x2x3+2 pairs: L2 B' L D2 U F2 (Pre-moves F2 U' R)
But I couldn't find a a good finish, CE spat out a (seemingly) unfindable 15 move finish for L&D.

irontwig said:

DavidWoner said:

Scramble: D' B2 R F U' L' F' B2 L' U' F U' L F' R2 U2 B D2 R2 U2 D B2 U B' U'

Click to expand...

This looks kinda nice:
Pseudo 2x2x3+2 pairs: L2 B' L D2 U F2 (Pre-moves F2 U' R)
But I couldn't find a a good finish, CE spat out a (seemingly) unfindable 15 move finish for L&D.

Click to expand...

Quick skeleton:

Pre-scramble: U R

1st square: F L' B R'
2nd square: D' B2
3rd square: D2 B' U
F2L minus 1 slot: R'

Then

All but 5 corners: B' R' B R B

or

All but 4 corners: B D2 L B L' B' D2

Too lazy to find insertions.

Moar.

Scramble: U2 L R' U' L2 B2 D' L F U2 B' R2 L D2 U' R2 F2 B2 U' F2 U2 B D2 L' D

2x2x3: U F' U D L, B' U' L F' L [10/10]
F2L-1: D2 R' [2/12]
Finish edges: F D F' D R' D [6/18]

Insertions
,= D2 B' U2 B D2 B' .U2 B cancelling 3 moves.
.= F' U B2 U' F U B2 U' cancelling 2 moves.

Resulting in another 29 move solution:
U F' U D L D2 B' U2 B D2 B' F' U B2 U' F U B2 L F' L D2 R' F D F' D R' D

Still kind of disappointing considering the start. I wanted to practice 5 corner insertions though, they still take me longer than they should. Luckily it was a pure 5 cycle and not 2-2 plus twisted or something like a twisted 3-cycle plus two twisted.

MOAR!!

Scramble: F2 R B2 L D' L2 D2 F D' U R' B2 D' L2 F' L' U' D' F' L' F2 R' F2 D' B2

Some blocks and junk: D F' L R2 B' D2, B D' U' [9/9]
Connect: L' B' L . [3/12]
F2L-1: U2 F B' R F' B [6/18]
Leave 2 twisted: R U' R' [3/21]

Insertions:
.= L' B L F2 L' B' L F2 cancelling 6 moves.
,= D' B U B' D B U' B' cancelling 4 moves.

Solution: D F' L R2 B' D B U B' D B U2 D' F2 L' B' L F2 U2 F B' R F' B R U' R'
27 moves

Comment: This one was so much fun! So many blocks to play around with in the beginning, and the most fun double insertion possible. I was happy the second one turned out so well. This reminds me of my second solve at Nats09 where I also got to 2 twisted corners in 21 moves, but there I was pressed for time and already had a 27 from the previous day so I just DNFed it. Funfunfunfun!!

By the way, I didn't fully explore all the options for the first insertion, I only evaluated things around B' D2 B, L' B' L, and R U' R' looking for massive insertions. I should have also evaluated F R F' and B' R B but w/e this worked out nicely. If someone can find something better though I'd be interested.

If you want to practice for FMC, I recommend to try not only normal/easy scrambles but also hard scrambles.
Needless to say, the hardest scramble first, and here are the scrambles for which I couldn't achieve Sub 30.

• FMC336: F' R U D' L2 F' B' U' B2 F2 L R' U D B2 F L R' B R' B D F2 R' D2 F' B' D U2 R
• FMC307: L' D B' D2 F' B U D' R F' D F' L B' D R' L' D F2 L D B2 F' U' L' R2 B' F L2 R
• FMC283: U' D2 B U L' B' F2 D2 L R U2 F' R' L2 D U2 F2 B' D' L' B' F2 U R B' F' R' U' B2 F2*
• FMC280: U' F2 U' D2 B2 U' B' F U' B L' U2 D' L' F2 B D2 B' L' B F R D R2 U R' F' U2 D R2
• FMC279: U' F' U2 B' L D' U F2 L2 B' U2 F2 B2 R U' B L U F' B' D U B R' B2 F R2 D2 L R2*
• FMC272: D2 L D' L2 U R' L2 B L R2 F D2 L R B' R F' R B' U' D L2 B' R D' R2 L2 F2 U' B*

AFAIK no one has achieved Sub 30 for the hardest scramble and the scrambles above with '*' at end. Try them first.

My 29 from US Nationals:

Scramble: D U' B2 U2 L2 U2 L D B' F D2 B' D U R U2 B2 U
Solution: B2 D' L2 F2 L' B L B' L2 B D B' D' B' L U2 B' D B U2 B' D' L' B R D R' B L (29)

start on regular scramble, premove L:
2x2x2: B2 D' L2 F2 (4|4)
pseudo-2x2x3: L' B L B' L2 (5|9)
NISS with premove L2 B L' B' L F2 L2 D B2
fix 2x2x3: L' (1|10)
cross piece: B' R D' R' (4|14)
pair3: B' L B L' (4|18)
pair4: B D B D' (4|22)
edges skip: B' (1|23)
this gives 23 skeleton: B2 D' L2 F2 L' B L B' L2 B D B' D' B' L * B' L' B R D R' B L
insert U2 B' D B U2 B' D' B (6|29) at * for 29 total.

Also my 27 NAR from Hackley:
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/s...0-Tarrytown-NY&p=617474&viewfull=1#post617474

okayama said:

If you want to practice for FMC, I recommend to try not only normal/easy scrambles but also hard scrambles.
Needless to say, the hardest scramble first, and here are the scrambles for which I couldn't achieve Sub 30.
……

Click to expand...

Aha, the scramble below also has kind of symmetry, that no 2 adjacent(even adjacent in diagonal sense) cubies are of the same color.
L' R2 B2 D2 B2 R' B L' D' U F' L' F2 D' R2 B' U2 R F2 U'
So can it be a hard scramble?

Just did my first FMC, im terrible (49 moves). Can you give me some tips?

Scramble: R2 B D B2 D U B F2 R' B L2 U' F2 B R D2 B' R2 D B2 D2 B' U D' L R' B' D' B2 L2

F' L' F' B' L' U R2 B' R D2 F L2 D' U' R B2 L F' R' U' F2 U B2 L' R2

My first two FMC solves ever. I hope I did them right. Even though my blockbuilding improved just in doing these two solves, they still feel too CFOPy.

2x2x2: D R2 D U R U R' U2 R U R' (11/11)
2x2x3: L U2 L' U' L U L2 (7/18)
3rd slot: R B R' U B2 U (6/24)
F2L: B2 U B2 U' B L' B' L (8/32)
OLL: L' B' D' B D L (6/38)
PLL: L B2 L' B' L B2 R' B L' B' R (11/49)

49 -4 = 45 Moves
D R2 D U R U R' U2 R U R' L U2 L' U' L U L2 R B R' U B2 U B2 U B2 U' B L' B2 D' B D L2 B2 L' B' L B2 R' B L' B' R

Cool. 2x2x2 Block absolutely sucked, but the rest of the solve turned out decently for my first FM solve.

B R L F U2 B2 U2 L2 R U' R L' D L2 D2 B D L2 R2 D' F2 D' B' R U2

2x2x2: D U' R2 (3/3)
2x2x3: L' D' R D R'(5/8)
3rd slot: D L2 D (3/11)
F2l: L2 D L D' L2 B' L B (8/19)
OLL: U L U' L' U' F U F' (8/27)
PLL: L' U' L2 U L U' L2 D L' U L D' (12/39)

39 Moves
D U' R2 L' D' R D R' D L2 D L2 D L D' L2 B' L B U L U' L' U' F U F' L' U' L2 U L U' L2 D L' U L D'

Some one who is accomplished in FMC should take a look at this start.
I don't know/ couldn't find anything fancy after the 3rd slot.

tozies24 said:

B R L F U2 B2 U2 L2 R U' R L' D L2 D2 B D L2 R2 D' F2 D' B' R U2

2x2x2: D U' R2 (3/3)
2x2x3: L' D' R D R'(5/8)
3rd slot: D L2 D (3/11)
F2l: L2 D L D' L2 B' L B (8/19)
OLL: U L U' L' U' F U F' (8/27)
PLL: L' U' L2 U L U' L2 D L' U L D' (12/39)

39 Moves
D U' R2 L' D' R D R' D L2 D L2 D L D' L2 B' L B U L U' L' U' F U F' L' U' L2 U L U' L2 D L' U L D'

Some one who is accomplished in FMC should take a look at this start.
I don't know/ couldn't find anything fancy after the 3rd slot.

Click to expand...

D U' R2 L' D' R D R' D L2 D B D' B' D2 U R2 U' L2 U R2 U' D' L B' L' B L2 (28)

D U' R2 L' D' R D R'
D L2 D (Your start)
B D' B' D2 L2.D' L B' L' B L2

Insert at dot: L2 U R2 U' L2 U R2 U' (Two moves cancel)

11 move F2L-1 is really nice, it's more or less guaranteed sub-30.

okayama said:

If you want to practice for FMC, I recommend to try not only normal/easy scrambles but also hard scrambles.
Needless to say, the hardest scramble first, and here are the scrambles for which I couldn't achieve Sub 30.

• FMC336: F' R U D' L2 F' B' U' B2 F2 L R' U D B2 F L R' B R' B D F2 R' D2 F' B' D U2 R
• FMC307: L' D B' D2 F' B U D' R F' D F' L B' D R' L' D F2 L D B2 F' U' L' R2 B' F L2 R
• FMC283: U' D2 B U L' B' F2 D2 L R U2 F' R' L2 D U2 F2 B' D' L' B' F2 U R B' F' R' U' B2 F2*
• FMC280: U' F2 U' D2 B2 U' B' F U' B L' U2 D' L' F2 B D2 B' L' B F R D R2 U R' F' U2 D R2
• FMC279: U' F' U2 B' L D' U F2 L2 B' U2 F2 B2 R U' B L U F' B' D U B R' B2 F R2 D2 L R2*
• FMC272: D2 L D' L2 U R' L2 B L R2 F D2 L R B' R F' R B' U' D L2 B' R D' R2 L2 F2 U' B*

AFAIK no one has achieved Sub 30 for the hardest scramble and the scrambles above with '*' at end. Try them first.

Click to expand...

One of my very first FMC attempt:

FMC336: F' R U D' L2 F' B' U' B2 F2 L R' U D B2 F L R' B R' B D F2 R' D2 F' B' D U2 R

Solve:
L' D R F' D (5)
L' U L' B L2 B' (11)
U2 R U' R' B U' B' (18)
U' F' U2 F U' R U R2 (26)
F' d F' U' F2 R B R' F' R (36)
y2 (x) R2 D2 R U R' D2 R U' R (45)

Maybe I'll try a few more soon (That above one was 5~10 minutes)

FMC307: L' D B' D2 F' B U D' R F' D F' L B' D R' L' D F2 L D B2 F' U' L' R2 B' F L2 R

U' R L F' B' L U L' D (9)
B' R B R' (13)
L U2 L' U B' U B (20)
F' U2 F2 U F' U (26)
R U' R' U R' F R U2 F' U' F U' F' U (40)
R' U2 R U2 R' F R U R' U' R' F' R2 (53)

Thought about this instead:
All the same until OLL, (Added 1 move because of the cancellation in the previous attempt)

U' R L F' B' L U L' D (9)
B' R B R' (13)
L U2 L' U B' U B (20)
F' U2 F2 U F' U F' (27)
L' U' L U' L' U2 L (34)
y' x R' U R' D2 R U' R' D2 R2 (43)

FMC283: U' D2 B U L' B' F2 D2 L R U2 F' R' L2 D U2 F2 B' D' L' B' F2 U R B' F' R' U' B2 F2*

y' x R' D L' R2 (4)
U F U2 F R' F2 R (11)
F R' F' R (15)
U R' U R U' R' U R (23)
L U2 L' U2 L U' L' (30)
R B U B' U' M' B U B' U' r' (41)
U M2 U M2 U M' U2 M2 U2 M' (51)

Didn't go too well, can't think of improvement.




I'd be happy if someone could make the solves better (Continue from somewhere)

At least it looks nice written down.

Cielo said:

okayama said:

If you want to practice for FMC, I recommend to try not only normal/easy scrambles but also hard scrambles.
Needless to say, the hardest scramble first, and here are the scrambles for which I couldn't achieve Sub 30.
……

Click to expand...

Aha, the scramble below also has kind of symmetry, that no 2 adjacent(even adjacent in diagonal sense) cubies are of the same color.
L' R2 B2 D2 B2 R' B L' D' U F' L' F2 D' R2 B' U2 R F2 U'
So can it be a hard scramble?

Click to expand...

Yeah, I believe so. Maybe equivalent to the hardest.
In fact Cube Explorer says God cannot achieve Sub 20 for this one.

That reminds me the scramble of Dutch Open 2009, and it may be worth trying, as a scramble given in the real competition.
My try in 1-hour can be seen here.

EDIT: further reminds: U' D2 L R' F2 R B D' F' B2 U' D' F' R2 L2 F U B' D2 U' B' L F2 U R D' B F R' U' (FMC310)
Quite hard for 1-hour solve (discussion about it).

okayama said:

Yeah, I believe so. Maybe equivalent to the hardest.
In fact Cube Explorer says God cannot achieve Sub 20 for this one.

That reminds me the scramble of Dutch Open 2009, and it may be worth trying, as a scramble given in the real competition.
My try in 1-hour can be seen here.

EDIT: further reminds: U' D2 L R' F2 R B D' F' B2 U' D' F' R2 L2 F U B' D2 U' B' L F2 U R D' B F R' U' (FMC310)
Quite hard for 1-hour solve (discussion about it).

Click to expand...

As to the Dutch Open 2009 one, I just tried and got a start like this: U' L' R2 U' R2 U' R2 F2 D' R F' R2 D F2 D' F.
But I'm not good at the last layer at all. After this start, I only find
NISS: R2 B R B2 D' B D' R D2 F D F' D2, leaves only two twisted corners……

32 moves on the hardest scramble. About 6 hours so far. I will sub30 this if it kills me.

NISS with psuedoblock and PLL skip.
Linky, should be fairly obvious which parts are which.

Just spent a couple of hours on the hardest scramble, and came out with 15 move F2L-1 and EO as my best effort.
Or 28 moves to leave 3 corners and hope for 7 move cancellation