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ZZ-CT Thread

zzcuberman

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3 moves is insignificant in comparison to the time it takes to do TSLE. You have to do a 3-4 move insert just to randomly insert the edge into the slot, then take time to recognize and execute on the TSLE case, taking far more time. Plus you have less options this way as you lowkey have to insert in the FR slot unless you want to do mirroring, which would be a lot of annoying work for little benefit.

Also I know about the U perms. I use three different kinds of algs, just depending on the AUF.
i do BR FR slot neutral. also tsle is comparable to oll recog time
 

OreKehStrah

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i do BR FR slot neutral. also tsle is comparable to oll recog time
Okay so if the recognition time is the same, and because TSLE is mostly triggers vs optimized OLL algs, execution is the same, that means the only other thing to compare is the 3-4 move insert step which is the same.

Therefore, my technique is no worse than TSLE. I think that is pretty obvious at this point. The whole point of my technique is that it gives CFOP solvers more F2L options, with the only new thing needed to be learned is TTLL. As a result, since TSLE and Free Slotting are pretty much equal in moves and speed, for most people just doing free slotting is going to be better because you don't have to take the time learning TSLE since both will accomplish the same thing.
 

zzcuberman

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Okay so if the recognition time is the same, and because TSLE is mostly triggers vs optimized OLL algs, execution is the same, that means the only other thing to compare is the 3-4 move insert step which is the same.

Therefore, my technique is no worse than TSLE. I think that is pretty obvious at this point. The whole point of my technique is that it gives CFOP solvers more F2L options, with the only new thing needed to be learned is TTLL. As a result, since TSLE and Free Slotting are pretty much equal in moves and speed, for most people just doing free slotting is going to be better because you don't have to take the time learning TSLE since both will accomplish the same thing.
Tsle is a good step lol
 

zzcuberman

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There's nothing wrong with it no. But, there is an alternative that is no worse, that doesn't require you to learn anything new, and really gives more options when you think about it.
Not really. Theres several things you can do with CT. Learn C and combine to make C++, learn the other twisted corner ttlls. Lots of things can be applied to save wvwn more moves making the movecount the same as A.
 

N's-cvt

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About to start TSLE, wish me luck. I would also like to know what N, Cw and Ccw stand for, since the website that i'm using to learn the algorithms splits the cases up into those 3.

What website are you using to learn TSLE from?
 

OreKehStrah

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Zz-a is not better then zzc++
I hope you realize you are telling that to one of the fastest ZZ and most experienced ZZ users on the forums. Meanwhile you are a fairly new, uninformed person on the forums, so you better have some GOOD evidence to back up your claims. I would bet money you don't use either versions of ZZ, and if that's the case, I would suggest you not make those kinds of claims.
 

OreKehStrah

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I have friends who use them
1. That isn't good evidence whatsoever. I have friends who use CFOP to solve a cube maybe once or twice and year and take a few minutes. That anecdotal evidence doesn't hold any weight. There is also a very high chance neither of them use the full methods either. Plus you gave no info about them at all. Who are they? How fast are they? How long have they been cubing?
2. You really should be providing YOUR OWN evidence when you make a claim on a topic, and provide a detailed explanation of your reasons and thoughts, not more vague BS that adds nothing to the conversation.
 

zzcuberman

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In my personal experience i believe the potential for C++ is about as good as A. Obviously slot N is a big deal but not to bad to deal with.
 

OreKehStrah

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In my personal experience i believe the potential for C++ is about as good as A. Obviously slot N is a big deal but not to bad to deal with.
I think that in the long term, ZZ CAT(C++ and A) would be best.
1. You can have a ZZ variant named after cats lol
2. There are cases where TTLL, OLL PLL, and ZBLL are the best and where they aren't so optimal, so eventually you would be able to build a network of what to do for each scenario
 

zzcuberman

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I think that in the long term, ZZ CAT(C++ and A) would be best.
1. You can have a ZZ variant named after cats lol
2. There are cases where TTLL, OLL PLL, and ZBLL are the best and where they aren't so optimal, so eventually you would be able to build a network of what to do for each scenario
yes i agree. i even have the other TTLL sets genned(+,-,i, im, and the standard is o) but that would take basically full time dedication something most people dont have i feel like.
 

OreKehStrah

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yes i agree. i even have the other TTLL sets genned(+,-,i, im, and the standard is o) but that would take basically full time dedication something most people dont have i feel like.
Yeah definitely. How many algs is it in total compared to ZBLL? I’d be interested to see what would be more work to learn all of haha.
Also let me know whenever you compile your updated list of TTLL algs. I’m finally going to have more free time this semester since all my upper level math classes are with a professor who gives pretty much no homework.
 

zzcuberman

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Yeah definitely. How many algs is it in total compared to ZBLL? I’d be interested to see what would be more work to learn all of haha.
Also let me know whenever you compile your updated list of TTLL algs. I’m finally going to have more free time this semester since all my upper level math classes are with a professor who gives pretty much no homework.
I have the bar cases done and im like halfway with the opp cases. I dont work on them alot. 72×5 for full TTLL plus OLS basically. Lol lottts of algs. The ols is basically 90% RU,9% RUD, and 1% short 7 move RUL( either that or a nasty 15 move alg). So yeah a ton of algs but from what im messed with the move count is great.
 
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