# Will Clock get removed as an official event?

#### ProStar

##### Member
I think your logic is so immensely flawed that I am going to choose to no longer reply.
Saying my logic is flawed, but giving no proof and simply using the age-old comeback of "I'm just not even going to reply" isn't even an answer to what I said. Unless you can't answer it, in which your entire statement was a lie, there's no reason not to respond to my argument

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#### Kit Clement

Saying my logic is flawed, but giving no proof and simply using the age-old comeback of "I'm just not even going to reply" isn't even an answer to what I said. Unless you can't answer it, in which your entire statement was a lie, there's no reason not to respond to my argument
Then make arguments that are based on actual logic rather than what you feel should be a twisty puzzle.

#### ProStar

##### Member
Then make arguments that are based on actual logic rather than what you feel should be a twisty puzzle.
"The World Cube Association governs competitions for mechanical puzzles that are operated by twisting groups of pieces, commonly known as 'twisty puzzles'. The most famous of these puzzles is the Rubik's Cube, invented by professor Rubik from Hungary. A selection of these puzzles are chosen as official events of the WCA."

Turning a dial isn't technically twisting groups of pieces. And a pin isn't twisted at all. If you want to say the clock faces move, they're never actually touched by the solver. The solver simply turns a singular piece(dial) and pushes pins up and down

#### WarriorCatCuber

##### Member
No clock is my favourite event I can't let it get removed.

#### Kit Clement

"The World Cube Association governs competitions for mechanical puzzles that are operated by twisting groups of pieces, commonly known as 'twisty puzzles'. The most famous of these puzzles is the Rubik's Cube, invented by professor Rubik from Hungary. A selection of these puzzles are chosen as official events of the WCA."

Turning a dial isn't technically twisting groups of pieces. And a pin isn't twisted at all. If you want to say the clock faces move, they're never actually touched by the solver. The solver simply turns a singular piece(dial) and pushes pins up and down
Turning a dial does exactly that? A set of dials all rotate when a corner dial is turned, which sounds exactly like a group of pieces that are twisted. And the pins do twist, even if that is irrelevant in terms of the solved state. You're talking about if it feels like a twisty puzzle again, and ignoring the definition put squarely in your face.

#### ProStar

##### Member
Honestly, I don't even want clock removed. No just because of the backlash that will occur, but just because I don't care. It isn't really hurting the WCA, some people just think it looks weird(which I do agree with). I was kind of playing devil's advocate, giving reasons why it could be removed. That being said, I still don't think clock is much of a twisty puzzle, but I think it's pointless to remove now. It's like 6x6 and 7x7, many people would say now not to add it, but no one wants it removed

#### kubesolver

I also think similarly to prostar.
It's cubing association. Cubing. Solving cubes.
For me and i think a big part of general public WCA is the Rubik's Magic Cube aka 3x3x3 plus variations of it.
Smaller, bigger, solving weird way, turning weird ways, other cuboids all fit.
Clock doesn't fit. It's here because it comes from the same toy company which produced first 3x3.
The only way it might look like it fits is that it has been here for a long time, people got used to it and came up with their definition of a suitable puzzle that includes a clock.
But because it's been here for a while and doesn't hurt anyone I think it's ok for it to stay.

#### ProStar

##### Member
I also think similarly to prostar.
It's cubing association. Cubing. Solving cubes.
For me and i think a big part of general public WCA is the Rubik's Magic Cube aka 3x3x3 plus variations of it.
Smaller, bigger, solving weird way, turning weird ways, other cuboids all fit.
Clock doesn't fit. It's here because it comes from the same toy company which produced first 3x3.
The only way it might look like it fits is that it has been here for a long time, people got used to it and came up with their definition of a suitable puzzle that includes a clock.
But because it's been here for a while and doesn't hurt anyone I think it's ok for it to stay.
I agree. I don't think it should have been added to the WCA in the first place, but there's no reason to remove it.

Also, @Kit Clement you've said multiple times you think clock is stupid. Were we both playing devil's advocate?

#### Kit Clement

I do think clock is a stupid event, but I don't think it should be removed. The argument that it's not a twisty puzzle is completely bogus though, because nobody has a clear definition of what a twisty puzzle is. People usually go to some definition of "twist" and clock clearly fits the definition of that. There's surely something intuitively different about clock compared to other WCA puzzles, but it's not that it doesn't belong with twisty puzzles.

#### ProStar

##### Member
I do think clock is a stupid event, but I don't think it should be removed. The argument that it's not a twisty puzzle is completely bogus though, because nobody has a clear definition of what a twisty puzzle is. People usually go to some definition of "twist" and clock clearly fits the definition of that. There's surely something intuitively different about clock compared to other WCA puzzles, but it's not that it doesn't belong with twisty puzzles.
I think I'm of your opinion; I think clock is stupid but it shouldn't be removed

#### RPerm (2020GOME05)

##### Member
Hello if we remove clock we’re going to remove half of the community.

#### BenChristman1

##### Member
Hello if we remove clock we’re going to remove half of the community.
First of all, half of the community does not do clock, and second, why did you bump a 9-month-old thread?

#### MJS Cubing

##### Member
Hello if we remove clock we’re going to remove half of the community.
if clock gets removed the half of the community is in outrage, unlike feet, where only a small portion liked the event.

#### Aerma

if clock gets removed the half of the community is in outrage, unlike feet, where only a small portion liked the event.
Even though few people competed in feet, more than half the community was outraged at the removal of feet.

#### ProStar

##### Member
Even though few people competed in feet, more than half the community was outraged at the removal of feet.
That's true, but also ridiculous. If you don't care about the event enough to do it, then why are you mad when it gets removed? For stuff like BLD, it makes sense to have low participation, because it's hard. But the barrier to participation is very low for Feet, as pretty much anyone who can solve a 3x3 could do feet

#### DNF_Cuber

##### Member
That's true, but also ridiculous. If you don't care about the event enough to do it, then why are you mad when it gets removed? For stuff like BLD, it makes sense to have low participation, because it's hard. But the barrier to participation is very low for Feet, as pretty much anyone who can solve a 3x3 could do feet
It's kind of like how if you don't live in sudan, you can still wish they had more water and try to do something about it

#### ProStar

##### Member
It's kind of like how if you don't live in sudan, you can still wish they had more water and try to do something about it
That's a flawed analogy. Anyone can start doing 3x3 with feet if they know how to solve a 3x3. Not everybody can move to Sudan / are in a poverty situation. In your example, people are helping their fellow humans who need it. In this situation, people are whining about something they don't care enough about to actually do.