Views on Recent WCA-WSOT announcement about 3 regions Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macau being renamed

It seems weird to me that there is nobody from China (or any of its closely allied countries) on the WSOT to push this change. The committee is made up of two Americans, two Brits, and a Hungarian. The only possible connection that I can find is that Hungary has bought into China’s Belt and Road Initiative.

How far-fetched is it to think that the Chinese government contacted the WCA about the region names? Is it possible that the PRC bullied the WCA/WSOT into making this change?

I think that this decision by the WSOT is 2/3 correct. I don’t know much about the situation in Macau, but it seems like it is controlled from Beijing, so I can see how that change makes sense.

While I don’t agree with it, the name change to Hong Kong makes sense. The WTO (World Trade Organization) and the IOC (International Olympic Committee) recognize it as “Hong Kong, China,” so it is reasonable for the WCA to make that change as well.

While Taiwan is only officially recognized by 12 UN members (plus the Holy See), it is effectively recognized as its own country in many places in the world. (Although we’ll see how long that lasts…) I understand the WSOT’s thinking that because only one China can be the true China, and most countries have chosen to recognize the PRC, not the ROC, it makes sense for them to too. But the WCA does not play a major role in geopolitics, so why did they make a change that most people don’t actually agree with?

This is just my two cents. I am by no means well-versed in geopolitics, but if anyone else has anything to add or correct, I would like to hear it. :)
 
I prefer the old names, but I think this is the wca trying to cement itself as a sports organisation by using the official terminology used by the IOC.

Edit: I know this is old but i just want to clarify that I do not agree with that the chinese government are doing.
 
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TheSpeedSkewber said:
I prefer the old names, but I think this is the wca trying to cement itself as a sports organisation by using the official terminology used by the IOC.
Click to expand...
They did say oretty mich exactly that:

"This is purely an effort to align with the IOC’s standards.
A dedicated working group has spent several months primarily focused on this matter. They have taken the time to consult with key stakeholders in the local communities and members involved in the original creation of the WCA recognized regions list. After considering the feedback from these stakeholders, the WCA Board has unanimously agreed to adopt the proposed changes put forth by the working group."

Sounds fair enough...
...and recognition of Taiwan as its own place is a plus, right?
 
BenChristman1 said:
It seems weird to me that there is nobody from China (or any of its closely allied countries) on the WSOT to push this change. The committee is made up of two Americans, two Brits, and a Hungarian. The only possible connection that I can find is that Hungary has bought into China’s Belt and Road Initiative.

How far-fetched is it to think that the Chinese government contacted the WCA about the region names? Is it possible that the PRC bullied the WCA/WSOT into making this change?

I think that this decision by the WSOT is 2/3 correct. I don’t know much about the situation in Macau, but it seems like it is controlled from Beijing, so I can see how that change makes sense.

While I don’t agree with it, the name change to Hong Kong makes sense. The WTO (World Trade Organization) and the IOC (International Olympic Committee) recognize it as “Hong Kong, China,” so it is reasonable for the WCA to make that change as well.

While Taiwan is only officially recognized by 12 UN members (plus the Holy See), it is effectively recognized as its own country in many places in the world. (Although we’ll see how long that lasts…) I understand the WSOT’s thinking that because only one China can be the true China, and most countries have chosen to recognize the PRC, not the ROC, it makes sense for them to too. But the WCA does not play a major role in geopolitics, so why did they make a change that most people don’t actually agree with?

This is just my two cents. I am by no means well-versed in geopolitics, but if anyone else has anything to add or correct, I would like to hear it. :)
Click to expand...

Hong Kong and Macau do legally belong to China, but for all intents and purposes they are separate countries. They have different governments, immigration systems, languages, currency, etc.. It’s honestly quite ridiculous to call them part of China at this point.

Taiwan is unofficially recognized as a country even by the US (such as when they sent warships to protect “China” (Taiwan) from China). It is even more blatantly a country than Hong Kong or Macau, but is also much more of a point of contention. Last I heard everyone was kinda letting China own Taiwan while unofficially supporting Taiwan that way they wouldn’t sever political relationships with China.

I haven’t researched this topic in close to 5 years though, so the political landscape might have changed recently
 
artless1der said:
Sounds fair enough...
...and recognition of Taiwan as its own place is a plus, right?
Click to expand...
It was previously recognized as its own place, but will now be recognized as Chinese Taipei. In my opinion, it is a step backwards. Although, does Chinese Taipei refer to the fact that Taiwan was once the widely-recognized China, or does it assume that Taiwan is effectively controlled by modern-day China (which is by no means true)?

ProStar said:
Hong Kong and Macau do legally belong to China, but for all intents and purposes they are separate countries. They have different governments, immigration systems, languages, currency, etc.. It’s honestly quite ridiculous to call them part of China at this point.

Taiwan is unofficially recognized as a country even by the US (such as when they sent warships to protect “China” (Taiwan) from China). It is even more blatantly a country than Hong Kong or Macau, but is also much more of a point of contention. Last I heard everyone was kinda letting China own Taiwan while unofficially supporting Taiwan that way they wouldn’t sever political relationships with China.

I haven’t researched this topic in close to 5 years though, so the political landscape might have changed recently
Click to expand...
Yes. Basically what I was trying to say, but said better, lol. Especially this part.
 
Hong Kong and Macau are pretty unambiguously a part of China, even if they enjoy more independence than the average sub-national division, so I don't really have a problem the name change here. Taiwan is de facto a sovereign country so I would prefer that it be called "Taiwan" instead of "Chines Taipei," which is basically just used to appease China. In particular, I think it is important that people have the ability to compete under their country's flag, which seems like will not be the case.
However, I don't think there are any nefarious reasons why they are making this change, as some posters seem to be implying (see below, I was wrong about this). To me, it is clear that it is just aligning with the IOC. If being politically correct in this way helps get sponsors for large events like Worlds, I think it's probably worth it (given the timing and Worlds in Asia, I wonder if this is actually a factor). The WCA shouldn't be weighing on political issues anyway and as far as I can see, they apply their standard equally (i.e. following the IOC), which is really the best one could ask for.

EDIT: According to this post:
"Based on the information presently available from the WCA, it appears that the underlying motivation for these changes is to prevent being perceived as supportive of Taiwan’s independence, enabling the organization to be registered in China and facilitating organization of official competitions within Chinese territory. This also unveils that the lack of competitions in China in recent years is not solely due to pandemic-related restrictions, which is disheartening but not entirely unexpected."
If it is the case that there cannot be competitions in Mainland China without a concession on Taiwan's name and flag, then I support the decision. The ability of Chinese cubers to compete should take precedence over the Taiwan issue. Not everyone can travel to Malaysia or Singapore to compete like Yiheng and Ruihang.
 
Last edited:
turtwig said:
Hong Kong and Macau are pretty unambiguously a part of China, even if they enjoy more independence than the average sub-national division, so I don't really have a problem the name change here
Click to expand...

Legally yes, but they literally have their own governments. You can’t travel from China to Hong Kong without going through immigration and getting a passport check. They’re also both self sustaining
 
ProStar said:
Legally yes, but they literally have their own governments. You can’t travel from China to Hong Kong without going through immigration and getting a passport check. They’re also both self sustaining
Click to expand...
From the Wikipedia page for "Government of Hong Kong: "This government replaced the former British Hong Kong Government (1842–1997). The Chief Executive and the principal officials, nominated by the chief executive, are appointed by the State Council of the People's Republic of China."

From the Wikipedia page for "Government of Macau": "The affairs of the government are decided by secretaries, who are appointed by the chief executive and endorsed by the State Council of the Central People's Government in Beijing."

Obviously these territories have special circumstances associated with them due to their history, but that doesn't mean they are de facto and de jure not sovereign countries. A sovereign country doesn't have its government officials appointed by the government of another country.
China used to have internal passports. People in the Schengen Area don't need passports to travel through what are clearly separate countries. US States have "their own governments," a lot of autonomy, and often contradict the federal government on policy. You previously mentioned language (Quebec speaks French. Besides, people on the mainland speak Cantonese) and currency (British Oversea Territories use their own currencies). These things by themselves don't make a country. There's no perfect definition of a country, since it's all ultimately an arbitrary distinction and depends on specific historical circumstance, but I don't really see how Hong Kong and Macau can be considered separate countries under any reasonable categorization.
 
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World Cube Association

The World Cube Association governs competitions for mechanical puzzles that are operated by twisting groups of pieces, commonly known as 'twisty puzzles'. The most famous of these puzzles is the Rubik's Cube, invented by professor Rubik from Hungary. A selection of these puzzles are chosen as...
forum.worldcubeassociation.org forum.worldcubeassociation.org

I strongly suggest everyone give this a read.

Dear WCA Board,

I started cubing in January 2009, more than 14 years ago. That’s over half my lifetime.

It pains me to say that I have never been more ashamed to be part of the WCA community than today.

The Board’s decision to change the name of Taiwan to “Chinese Taipei” goes against everything our community stands for. I am deeply shocked by this announcement and want to express my strong disagreement, which I will also share publicly.

Understand that you are taking this step at a time when Chinese state television is showing animations of bombing Taiwan 9 and comparing Taiwanese people to a “tumour” 7 that must be surgically “removed” to allow the “body” of the Chinese nation to convalesce. Understand that the name “Chinese Taipei” is an act of national and cultural erasure that Beijing’s propaganda has been pushing ever more aggressively. Understand that Chinese officials not only routinely deny the existence of a Taiwanese people but are publicly threatening to “re-educate” it 3.

None of this is your fault. I’m sure you even disagree with it. But symbols matter. Actions matter. The WCA wants to be taken seriously as a professional organisation, right? That’s what I’m doing.
The flag that the WCA has, since its establishment, displayed for Taiwan is that of the Republic of China (ROC, Taiwan’s official name), a state founded in 1912. It precedes the founding of the People’s Republic of China (PRC) in 1949 by 37 years. Most importantly, Taiwan has never, in its history, been part of the PRC.

I’m not going to go into deep history. Anyone can Google it. But I will make one point: Taiwan is a country that for long stretches of time suffered under foreign rule. A succession of Dutch, Portuguese, Japanese, and Chinese regimes came to exploit the island and its people in a colonial or quasi-colonial manner, often through bloodshed. The PRC is working hard to become the next in that line, through military build-up on the one hand, and through the symbolic undermining of Taiwanese statehood on the other.

The WCA is taking part in the latter. That’s what the name “Chinese Taipei” represents. It’s a concession to ethno-imperial conquest and subjugation, a rhetoric denial of the right of peoples to self-determination.

Big words, I know. It’s only cubing, right?

But allow me to make an analogy. If, in some hopefully not too distant post-war future, the WCA were to receive pressure from the Russian government to change the name of Ukraine to “Russian Kyiv” – would you?

The WCA’s mission statement says: “Our mission is to have more competitions in more countries with more people and more fun, under fair and equal conditions.” The question is which half of that statement is more important to you, the first or the second? In working towards the aim of hosting the maximum number of competitions, do you believe more in “might is right” or in fair play?

“This is purely an effort to align with the IOC’s standards”, you write in your announcement. With due respect, that’s a weak and dishonest argument.

The WCA is neither a member nor a subsidiary of the International Olympic Committee, and – unlike states or multilateral organisations – does not have to participate in the absurd semantics of Taiwan-related geopolitical acrobatics.

Sure, you can decide to pretend that Taiwan does not exist. It’s embarrassing, but you can. But if that’s your choice, then please don’t hide in a we-don’t-make-the-rules pose. You do make the rules.

Aligning with the IOC standard means changing the cubing community’s status quo for the worse by actively accepting a ridiculous political fiction because “that’s just the way it is”. Except it isn’t. And for the WCA, it has never been – not during the 14 years I have been cubing, and not before then.

In this regard, it’s also worth pointing what kind of organisation the IOC is. Because neutral, it is not.

During Russia’s illegal annexation of the Ukrainian peninsula of Crimea in 2014, IOC President Thomas Bach chose to publicly drink champaign with Russian President Vladimir Putin at the opening of the Paralympics in Sochi 1. Later, despite increasing military threats from China towards Taiwan, the mass internment of Uyghurs and other minorities, and the crackdown on Hong Kong’s democracy, the IOC handed Beijing the 2022 Winter Olympics, declaring it, as always, an “unpolitical” event. I remember when a political scientist I interviewed for a newspaper article on the 2022 Olympics 4 told me, “The Beijing games are the end of the myth that the Olympics is unpolitical”.

That’s the IOC. It’s not the WCA. But whether you intend it to or not, the WCA’s decision on Taiwan is deeply political, too.

My outrage is not personal. The WCA has achieved incredible things through the selfless passion of individuals – especially those on the Board and the various teams and committees – who volunteered endless hours of their personal time to make this community better and more inclusive, often without pay, often without receiving the recognition they deserve.

But I can’t stress enough that in cases like this, public action speaks infinitely louder than private conviction.

I’ve competed in China, and I’ve competed in Taiwan. I’ve made friends with Chinese cubers, and I’ve made friends with Taiwanese cubers. But I have never competed in a place called “Chinese Taipei”. Because it does not exist.

I strongly urge you to reverse the decision.

Best wishes,
Cornelius Dieckmann (2009DIEC01)
 
DuckubingCuber347 said:

World Cube Association

The World Cube Association governs competitions for mechanical puzzles that are operated by twisting groups of pieces, commonly known as 'twisty puzzles'. The most famous of these puzzles is the Rubik's Cube, invented by professor Rubik from Hungary. A selection of these puzzles are chosen as...
forum.worldcubeassociation.org forum.worldcubeassociation.org

I strongly suggest everyone give this a read.

Dear WCA Board,

I started cubing in January 2009, more than 14 years ago. That’s over half my lifetime.

It pains me to say that I have never been more ashamed to be part of the WCA community than today.

The Board’s decision to change the name of Taiwan to “Chinese Taipei” goes against everything our community stands for. I am deeply shocked by this announcement and want to express my strong disagreement, which I will also share publicly.

Understand that you are taking this step at a time when Chinese state television is showing animations of bombing Taiwan 9 and comparing Taiwanese people to a “tumour” 7 that must be surgically “removed” to allow the “body” of the Chinese nation to convalesce. Understand that the name “Chinese Taipei” is an act of national and cultural erasure that Beijing’s propaganda has been pushing ever more aggressively. Understand that Chinese officials not only routinely deny the existence of a Taiwanese people but are publicly threatening to “re-educate” it 3.

None of this is your fault. I’m sure you even disagree with it. But symbols matter. Actions matter. The WCA wants to be taken seriously as a professional organisation, right? That’s what I’m doing.
The flag that the WCA has, since its establishment, displayed for Taiwan is that of the Republic of China (ROC, Taiwan’s official name), a state founded in 1912. It precedes the founding of the People’s Republic of China (PRC) in 1949 by 37 years. Most importantly, Taiwan has never, in its history, been part of the PRC.

I’m not going to go into deep history. Anyone can Google it. But I will make one point: Taiwan is a country that for long stretches of time suffered under foreign rule. A succession of Dutch, Portuguese, Japanese, and Chinese regimes came to exploit the island and its people in a colonial or quasi-colonial manner, often through bloodshed. The PRC is working hard to become the next in that line, through military build-up on the one hand, and through the symbolic undermining of Taiwanese statehood on the other.

The WCA is taking part in the latter. That’s what the name “Chinese Taipei” represents. It’s a concession to ethno-imperial conquest and subjugation, a rhetoric denial of the right of peoples to self-determination.

Big words, I know. It’s only cubing, right?

But allow me to make an analogy. If, in some hopefully not too distant post-war future, the WCA were to receive pressure from the Russian government to change the name of Ukraine to “Russian Kyiv” – would you?

The WCA’s mission statement says: “Our mission is to have more competitions in more countries with more people and more fun, under fair and equal conditions.” The question is which half of that statement is more important to you, the first or the second? In working towards the aim of hosting the maximum number of competitions, do you believe more in “might is right” or in fair play?

“This is purely an effort to align with the IOC’s standards”, you write in your announcement. With due respect, that’s a weak and dishonest argument.

The WCA is neither a member nor a subsidiary of the International Olympic Committee, and – unlike states or multilateral organisations – does not have to participate in the absurd semantics of Taiwan-related geopolitical acrobatics.

Sure, you can decide to pretend that Taiwan does not exist. It’s embarrassing, but you can. But if that’s your choice, then please don’t hide in a we-don’t-make-the-rules pose. You do make the rules.

Aligning with the IOC standard means changing the cubing community’s status quo for the worse by actively accepting a ridiculous political fiction because “that’s just the way it is”. Except it isn’t. And for the WCA, it has never been – not during the 14 years I have been cubing, and not before then.

In this regard, it’s also worth pointing what kind of organisation the IOC is. Because neutral, it is not.

During Russia’s illegal annexation of the Ukrainian peninsula of Crimea in 2014, IOC President Thomas Bach chose to publicly drink champaign with Russian President Vladimir Putin at the opening of the Paralympics in Sochi 1. Later, despite increasing military threats from China towards Taiwan, the mass internment of Uyghurs and other minorities, and the crackdown on Hong Kong’s democracy, the IOC handed Beijing the 2022 Winter Olympics, declaring it, as always, an “unpolitical” event. I remember when a political scientist I interviewed for a newspaper article on the 2022 Olympics 4 told me, “The Beijing games are the end of the myth that the Olympics is unpolitical”.

That’s the IOC. It’s not the WCA. But whether you intend it to or not, the WCA’s decision on Taiwan is deeply political, too.

My outrage is not personal. The WCA has achieved incredible things through the selfless passion of individuals – especially those on the Board and the various teams and committees – who volunteered endless hours of their personal time to make this community better and more inclusive, often without pay, often without receiving the recognition they deserve.

But I can’t stress enough that in cases like this, public action speaks infinitely louder than private conviction.

I’ve competed in China, and I’ve competed in Taiwan. I’ve made friends with Chinese cubers, and I’ve made friends with Taiwanese cubers. But I have never competed in a place called “Chinese Taipei”. Because it does not exist.

I strongly urge you to reverse the decision.

Best wishes,
Cornelius Dieckmann (2009DIEC01)
Click to expand...
Wow, that's an amazingly well-written and well-worded response from Cornelius. I wholeheartedly agree with him.
 
artless1der said:
They did say oretty mich exactly that:

"This is purely an effort to align with the IOC’s standards.
A dedicated working group has spent several months primarily focused on this matter. They have taken the time to consult with key stakeholders in the local communities and members involved in the original creation of the WCA recognized regions list. After considering the feedback from these stakeholders, the WCA Board has unanimously agreed to adopt the proposed changes put forth by the working group."

Sounds fair enough...
...and recognition of Taiwan as its own place is a plus, right?
Click to expand...
It's worth mentioning that the WCA has also admitted that this statement is misleading (i.e. a lie). The main motivation actually bwas getting competitions in China, certainly not "purely an effort to align with the IOC's standards". They were told that running Worlds with Taiwan recognized would result in the WCA being permanently banned as an NGO in China.

Further proof that this is not just to align with the IOC is that there's something like 10 other differences between WCA "countries" and what the IOC recognizes. ONLY the ones involving China were changed. Just a coincidence, I'm sure.
 
turtwig said:
EDIT: According to this post:
"Based on the information presently available from the WCA, it appears that the underlying motivation for these changes is to prevent being perceived as supportive of Taiwan’s independence, enabling the organization to be registered in China and facilitating organization of official competitions within Chinese territory. This also unveils that the lack of competitions in China in recent years is not solely due to pandemic-related restrictions, which is disheartening but not entirely unexpected."
Click to expand...
So my conspiracy theory actually wasn’t completely wrong.

My question is why is it only now an issue? The WCA has recognized Taiwan as separate from China for years now. China has also held competitions while the WCA is supposedly supporting Taiwan’s independence. Why is it that only now China is refusing to hold cubing competitions due to the WCA’s recognition of Taiwan?
 
BenChristman1 said:
My question is why is it only now an issue? The WCA has recognized Taiwan as separate from China for years now. China has also held competitions while the WCA is supposedly supporting Taiwan’s independence. Why is it that only now China is refusing to hold cubing competitions due to the WCA’s recognition of Taiwan?
Click to expand...
I don't think one can necessarily read anything into the timing. The Chinese government changes its mind on things all the time. Perhaps the long hiatus of competitions due to the pandemic has something to with it. Perhaps China's recent increased tensions with Taiwan and Hong Kong has to do with it. Perhaps some random bureaucrat just decided to mess with the WCA.
 
BenChristman1 said:
So my conspiracy theory actually wasn’t completely wrong.

My question is why is it only now an issue? The WCA has recognized Taiwan as separate from China for years now. China has also held competitions while the WCA is supposedly supporting Taiwan’s independence. Why is it that only now China is refusing to hold cubing competitions due to the WCA’s recognition of Taiwan?
Click to expand...
Nations Cup at Worlds with Taiwan listed as a participant. That's the reason.
 
I was disheartened to hear that Taiwan (among other countries) are being identified under China. I emailed the board, and I encourage others to do so as well to get the message across: [email protected]

Dear Board of Directors,

I hope this letter finds you well. I am writing to express my disappointment regarding the decision to recognize Taiwan as Chinese Taipei, along with other countries being identified under China. As a longtime cuber and a supporter of fair and inclusive international competitions, I believe the WCA should uphold inclusivity for the following reasons.

Firstly, by recognizing Taiwan as Chinese Taipei, the WCA is perpetuating a political bias. To side with the "One China" policy would be an insult to freedom. Each region should have the freedom to choose how they want to identify and govern themselves.

Secondly, the decision to label Taiwan as Chinese Taipei diminishes the achievements of Taiwanese cubers. Taiwan has a thriving Rubik's Cube community with talented and passionate individuals who have made significant contributions to the sport. By disregarding their national identity and grouping them under a generic name, the WCA is disregarding their achievements and erasing their individuality.

Moreover, recognizing Taiwan as Chinese Taipei undermines the principles of inclusivity and respect for cultural diversity. The WCA should strive to be an organization that celebrates and embraces the diversity of its participants, irrespective of their nationality or political circumstances. By not recognizing Taiwan as an independent entity, the WCA sends a message that it prioritizes political compliance over inclusivity, which is disheartening for a community built on shared passion and mutual support.

In light of these reasons, I kindly urge the Board of Directors to reconsider the decision to recognize Taiwan as Chinese Taipei. I believe it is crucial for the WCA to uphold Taiwan's freedom to determine its own destiny.

I hope that the Board will make a commitment to inclusivity. Thank you for your attention to this matter.
 
Spencer131 said:
I was disheartened to hear that Taiwan (among other countries) are being identified under China. I emailed the board, and I encourage others to do so as well to get the message across: [email protected]

Dear Board of Directors,

I hope this letter finds you well. I am writing to express my disappointment regarding the decision to recognize Taiwan as Chinese Taipei, along with other countries being identified under China. As a longtime cuber and a supporter of fair and inclusive international competitions, I believe the WCA should uphold inclusivity for the following reasons.

Firstly, by recognizing Taiwan as Chinese Taipei, the WCA is perpetuating a political bias. To side with the "One China" policy would be an insult to freedom. Each region should have the freedom to choose how they want to identify and govern themselves.

Secondly, the decision to label Taiwan as Chinese Taipei diminishes the achievements of Taiwanese cubers. Taiwan has a thriving Rubik's Cube community with talented and passionate individuals who have made significant contributions to the sport. By disregarding their national identity and grouping them under a generic name, the WCA is disregarding their achievements and erasing their individuality.

Moreover, recognizing Taiwan as Chinese Taipei undermines the principles of inclusivity and respect for cultural diversity. The WCA should strive to be an organization that celebrates and embraces the diversity of its participants, irrespective of their nationality or political circumstances. By not recognizing Taiwan as an independent entity, the WCA sends a message that it prioritizes political compliance over inclusivity, which is disheartening for a community built on shared passion and mutual support.

In light of these reasons, I kindly urge the Board of Directors to reconsider the decision to recognize Taiwan as Chinese Taipei. I believe it is crucial for the WCA to uphold Taiwan's freedom to determine its own destiny.

I hope that the Board will make a commitment to inclusivity. Thank you for your attention to this matter.
Click to expand...

As unfortunate as it is, I highly doubt this will be rolled back. From the sounds of it, the two options are changing Taiwan’s country label to China or having the WCA banned in all of mainland China (which is a threat they most certainly would follow through on)
 
ProStar said:
As unfortunate as it is, I highly doubt this will be rolled back. From the sounds of it, the two options are changing Taiwan’s country label to China or having the WCA banned in all of mainland China (which is a threat they most certainly would follow through on)
Click to expand...
I would feel a little bit better about the change if the Board hadn't just straight up lied in the announcement by saying it was "purely" to align with IOC standards. Should've just been honest and said the decision sucks but it was a pragmatic one to get competitions restarted in China (a worthy goal in and of itself). But that's not what we got.
 
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