arvind1999
Veteran
Roux. Link to the tutorial is in my signature! 
Should I learn Roux or ZZ?
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Infernado
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SAICubed
Regular
Ok first of all i started cubing in the summer of 2012 i started with the fridrich method. I used that until i averaged about 26 seconds and then i made a switch to the ZZ method only about a few months ago. In knowing the fridrich method learning ZZ came a lot easier to me the only difficult part was EOline it's just an overall difficult idea to grasp. However don't be daunted by the fact that it's a difficult concept to grasp with some practice it comes to the point where it's second nature and for me finally understanding EOline only took about a week of decent practice time. I currently average about 23 seconds with ZZ so the practice has paid off.
Now into your questions:
Which one is easier to learn?
I personally believe that ZZ is easier to learn especially coming from the fridrich method. My reasons for this is that ZZ in some ways is very similar to fridrich and in some ways is not. In the big picture the only major differences is that instead of cross you have EOline and during F2L there are no rotations needed. That's really the gist of it. As for Roux i'm not educated by any means with this method all i know is the basic steps of it. Roux is very intuitive and making the blocks in the first part of the solve can be very difficult to do the most efficient way. Especially coming from fridrich because your mind just wants you to make the block like inserting two F2L pairs and a lot of the time there is a much better way of doing the block but to get your mind to think like that can take a some time depending on the person.
Which one uses less algorithms?
I believe Roux has the least amount of algorithms however it may not be the best way using the least amount of algorithms.
How would you describe how Roux/ZZ?
ZZ is a block building method. It focuses on a low move and somewhat high turning speed which comes later on with practice. Since the first step is orienting all the edges the F2L only uses L, U, and R moves which are very quick and easy moves to execute. The edges being oriented also makes it so that once you get to the last layer all the edges are oriented already which drastically lowers the algorithm count leaving i believe only 7 OLL's all which have the cross on top done already.
Roux on the other hand is somewhat a block building method as well except it's more similar to petrus for block building. After the first block is built no rotations are needed the rest of the cube can be solved using R, r, M, and U turns sorry for not as much information here i'm just more educated with ZZ and not Roux.
Which one looks cooler?
Now i am a loyal ZZ user but i will admit that Roux looks so much cooler because of the M-slice moves like TwisterTimmy said.
I hope this helps if you have any ZZ questions you should contact asmallkitten on youtube he's very knowledgeable in the method.
Now into your questions:
Which one is easier to learn?
I personally believe that ZZ is easier to learn especially coming from the fridrich method. My reasons for this is that ZZ in some ways is very similar to fridrich and in some ways is not. In the big picture the only major differences is that instead of cross you have EOline and during F2L there are no rotations needed. That's really the gist of it. As for Roux i'm not educated by any means with this method all i know is the basic steps of it. Roux is very intuitive and making the blocks in the first part of the solve can be very difficult to do the most efficient way. Especially coming from fridrich because your mind just wants you to make the block like inserting two F2L pairs and a lot of the time there is a much better way of doing the block but to get your mind to think like that can take a some time depending on the person.
Which one uses less algorithms?
I believe Roux has the least amount of algorithms however it may not be the best way using the least amount of algorithms.
How would you describe how Roux/ZZ?
ZZ is a block building method. It focuses on a low move and somewhat high turning speed which comes later on with practice. Since the first step is orienting all the edges the F2L only uses L, U, and R moves which are very quick and easy moves to execute. The edges being oriented also makes it so that once you get to the last layer all the edges are oriented already which drastically lowers the algorithm count leaving i believe only 7 OLL's all which have the cross on top done already.
Roux on the other hand is somewhat a block building method as well except it's more similar to petrus for block building. After the first block is built no rotations are needed the rest of the cube can be solved using R, r, M, and U turns sorry for not as much information here i'm just more educated with ZZ and not Roux.
Which one looks cooler?
Now i am a loyal ZZ user but i will admit that Roux looks so much cooler because of the M-slice moves like TwisterTimmy said.
I hope this helps if you have any ZZ questions you should contact asmallkitten on youtube he's very knowledgeable in the method.
frenzen
Regular
learn both
sneaklyfox
Legend
That's an odd argument. Using the same idea, you could say that CFOP is most recommended because most of the fastest people in the world use it and the fastest uses it.
Smiles
Veteran
i actually recommend learning both, then choosing between the three (inc cfop). maybe not at the same time since you'll miss out on some details in each of them, but just choose one at random and start!
they both teach amazing concepts that CFOP doesn't. not that CFOP doesn't teach as much, but it doesn't have it all.
unlike making the cross, they both start with a whole bunch of intuitive stuff, you can almost do whatever you want during this part. it really helps teach how to set up the rest of the solve instead of moving step by step. CFOP has x-cross, which is so much easier to do with a good understanding of blockbuilding from the other methods.
i HAVE practiced speedsolving with roux, and i am past sub-20 with it. it was like 2 months of discipline. upon returning to cfop i approached solving in a completely different way. instead of seeing colors, patterns, steps, and destinations for every piece, i automatically noticed the orientation of all of the edges and "invented" some new inserts, completely improvised, based on Roux concepts.
next was corner permutation during OLL. instead of just looking at my LL color, i saw all of the corner colors at the same time because in roux that's just what you do. next thing i knew, i was predicting PLL cases. for example, sometimes i would see the corner permutation during OLL, do the alg, look at just one face for PLL, and i already know the case.
another good thing is my M turns improved, making Z and H perms among my fastest and most improved.
enough about how it helped my CFOP, roux itself is an amazing method. once you get your head out of CFOP, you'll realize how free the cube is during the first two blocks and you'll keep finding more and more ways to do them with each solve. the end is also really fun and fast if you get good at <M,U> turns. look ahead is mighty easy during that part.
however, ZZ is much closer to CFOP than roux is, and i cant speak from experience but i think it's much easier to transition to ZZ from CFOP rather than to Roux.
ZZ teaches you to use your freedom during EOline to not only finish EO and the line, but maybe even a block or more. plus, ZZ has great look ahead through the entire solve and the finger tricks are easy too.
LL is very flexible and there are tons of LS options to learn like WV, SV, and more intense ones too. you can even learn a bunch of ZBLL algs and actually take advantage of them in ZZ.
----
i'd recommend Roux if you're more into freestyle blockbuilding and M U. the move count is lower so if your brain works better than your fingers, this is for you.
ZZ instead if you dont like M U and you have fast fingers for ZZF2L and LL. also there are tons of algs/substeps to learn if you're the ambitious type.
if you ever plan on returning to CFOP or even think about it, learn both!
they both teach amazing concepts that CFOP doesn't. not that CFOP doesn't teach as much, but it doesn't have it all.
unlike making the cross, they both start with a whole bunch of intuitive stuff, you can almost do whatever you want during this part. it really helps teach how to set up the rest of the solve instead of moving step by step. CFOP has x-cross, which is so much easier to do with a good understanding of blockbuilding from the other methods.
i HAVE practiced speedsolving with roux, and i am past sub-20 with it. it was like 2 months of discipline. upon returning to cfop i approached solving in a completely different way. instead of seeing colors, patterns, steps, and destinations for every piece, i automatically noticed the orientation of all of the edges and "invented" some new inserts, completely improvised, based on Roux concepts.
next was corner permutation during OLL. instead of just looking at my LL color, i saw all of the corner colors at the same time because in roux that's just what you do. next thing i knew, i was predicting PLL cases. for example, sometimes i would see the corner permutation during OLL, do the alg, look at just one face for PLL, and i already know the case.
another good thing is my M turns improved, making Z and H perms among my fastest and most improved.
enough about how it helped my CFOP, roux itself is an amazing method. once you get your head out of CFOP, you'll realize how free the cube is during the first two blocks and you'll keep finding more and more ways to do them with each solve. the end is also really fun and fast if you get good at <M,U> turns. look ahead is mighty easy during that part.
however, ZZ is much closer to CFOP than roux is, and i cant speak from experience but i think it's much easier to transition to ZZ from CFOP rather than to Roux.
ZZ teaches you to use your freedom during EOline to not only finish EO and the line, but maybe even a block or more. plus, ZZ has great look ahead through the entire solve and the finger tricks are easy too.
LL is very flexible and there are tons of LS options to learn like WV, SV, and more intense ones too. you can even learn a bunch of ZBLL algs and actually take advantage of them in ZZ.
----
i'd recommend Roux if you're more into freestyle blockbuilding and M U. the move count is lower so if your brain works better than your fingers, this is for you.
ZZ instead if you dont like M U and you have fast fingers for ZZF2L and LL. also there are tons of algs/substeps to learn if you're the ambitious type.
if you ever plan on returning to CFOP or even think about it, learn both!
mark49152
Premium Member
@smiles: Thanks for your interesting post. I'm thinking of learning Roux as a break from CFOP and it's good to hear your experience and how it improved your solving skills in general.
ncube
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I think if you find cfop f2l to be awkward, blockbuilding will either be even more awkward or a bit easier. I think since you already know about cfop, it wouldn't hurt to look at badmephisto's f2l tutorial on youtube. You can apply some of what you learn there to blockbuilding, since blocks are made out of a square and a pair or the other way around.
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KongShou
Veteran
not boasting but sub 30 took me 3 weeks
Smiles
Veteran
everyone learns at different speeds. it took me a little over a month to get from a 45 second average and almost zero knowledge of CFOP (using dan brown's method) to full CFOP and sub 20.
OT: i was planning on converting to roux actually, but i was already sub-15 with CFOP and i didn't want to have to reaccustom myself to how it is i would solve the cube as fast as i could. but since you're not too advanced yet, it's a good time to explore your options.
Ickathu
Veteran
kinda my point. It took me a really long time to get it with CFOP, but I got it fairly quickly after I switched methods. I do tend to progress a lot slower than other people though, with 3x3 especially, but like Smiles said, people learn at different speeds. Example of the opposite for me: I was getting like 10-15 second ao5s on pyraminx for several months, decided to get serious with it, and went to sub 6 ao100 with consistent sub 5.5 ao12s and sub5 ao5s in a single month. (I'm up at about 6.5-7 now :/)
Smiles
Veteran
another important thing is your speedsolving skill level / ability.
like if you're sub-15 with one method, it wouldn't take long to get to sub-20 with a few others.
my average was about 14.00 when i started learning roux, and i didn't even know how the method worked. my very first try was 3:24.xx and i even cheated by glancing at the tutorial during that solve because i didn't know how to do it LOL.
my third solve and PB for the day was a pretty lucky 1:00.
10 days later i got a sub-20 single and i was already sub-30.
after 1 month of roux i had a sub-20 average of 12. (i know all these numbers because i was tracking my progress)
so it all depends on your current level. i had zero knowledge of roux and it just started catching up to my CFOP speed.
o2gulo
Veteran
Darn it guys, I've been cubing (on/off) for around 3 years, I'm still lost at the sub-25 zone. </3
Clarkeeyyy
Veteran
How can I improve my block building? I really want to switch to roux but my left and right blocks are dreadful.
Bestsimple
Regular
Just try and do them with the least amount of moves you can. Don't time your solves and just play around with the cube.
KongShou
Veteran
i have to say messing about with roux has really improved my x-cross skill. if i give myself enough time. i can see an x-cross every solve. time to get the inspection down to 15s!
also the M,U of the last step improved some of my M,U algs by quite a bit too. learn roux. even if you're a cfop fanboy like me.
also the M,U of the last step improved some of my M,U algs by quite a bit too. learn roux. even if you're a cfop fanboy like me.
ninja cuber
Member
I spent 4 months with CFOP and am at sub 20 XD
Roux im around 20-35
ZZ im at around 25
RayLam
Regular
eoline is the important step of zz,i think if you haven't learn blindfolded or other method ,it's hard to understand.anyway zz method is good for one-handed,you know phil yu use zz fast.roux is a little difficult to learn but you'll find it interesting soon.alexander lau is a roux master.when i was able to solve a cube layer by layer ,i learned roux then.first i wanted to be different,and i think there're not too many formulas(algorithms)and people think roux is a amazing method which is so unique.
the difficult step of roux method is two 1x2x3 block,the difficult step of zz is eoline.but if you have a tough mind to learn them both,it'll make you a master like alexander lau and phil yu
the difficult step of roux method is two 1x2x3 block,the difficult step of zz is eoline.but if you have a tough mind to learn them both,it'll make you a master like alexander lau and phil yu
Ooi Yan Qing
Regular
btw, roux is also a very good method for OH since there are no rotations and F or B moves after the first block. LSE can be execute easily by abusing the table.
Evidence of roux being a good method for OH?? Look at Alexander Lau's NR for OH.
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