Should I learn Roux or ZZ?

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Infernado

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If i told you, i would have to kill you ... Irelan
Okay, I have been trying Fridrich, it is okay, but it feels a little awkward for me sometimes. And I have looked into Roux, but I also think ZZ looks good, so I would like to ask what the advantages of the two are.
I know all methods are equal, but some people excel in different methods. So please answer some of the below questions:

Which one is easier to learn?
Which one uses less algorithms?
How would you describe how Roux/ZZ works?
and least important of all *drum roll* which one looks cooler?

I hope my newbie ness didn't bother you guys\girls\genius cats
 
Easier to learn: If you know fridrich then definetaly ZZ but EO-line (ZZ's first step) is quite difficult to grasp and execute at the start.
Algorithms: Full Roux has 42 COLL algorithms, ZZ can vary but usually 28 to start (7 OLL's, 21 PLL's).
How they work: Roux works by intuitively building two 2x3 blocks on the right and left of the cube, orienting and permuting the corners and then fixing the last six edges.
ZZ works by orienting all the edges of the cube, followed by ZZF2L which is very similar to regular F2L but since edges are oriented there are no awkward inserts and cube rotations. Followed by OLL which is reduced to 7 algorithms because of the oriented edges and finally PLL.
Which one looks cooler: Matter of opinion, for me its Roux.
Sorry if my descriptions weren't clear :).
 
Easier to learn: If you know fridrich then definetaly ZZ but EO-line (ZZ's first step) is quite difficult to grasp and execute at the start.
Algorithms: Full Roux has 42 COLL algorithms, ZZ can vary but usually 28 to start (7 OLL's, 21 PLL's).
How they work: Roux works by intuitively building two 2x3 blocks on the right and left of the cube, orienting and permuting the corners and then fixing the last six edges.
ZZ works by orienting all the edges of the cube, followed by ZZF2L which is very similar to regular F2L but since edges are oriented there are no awkward inserts and cube rotations. Followed by OLL which is reduced to 7 algorithms because of the oriented edges and finally PLL.
Which one looks cooler: Matter of opinion, for me its Roux.
Sorry if my descriptions weren't clear :).

That was actually quite helpful. Thank you for your help.

I like the look to zz too, and until I finish learning, I could use my knowledge of oll and pll for the last layer.

Btw, love your profile pic.
 
Both are easy to learn, but hard to master. In Roux, you mainly only need the CMLL algorithms (can be done in 2 looks, so 9 algs), rest is intuitive. Notable solver: Alexander Lau (5BLD)

In ZZ, you need to understand EO, and Learn the OLL's that have the edges oriented, and PLL. In ZZ COLL can come in handy, since all the edges are oriented. In that case, you need to learn COLL+EPLL. ZZ is better for OH (my opinion). In ZZ you can also use CLS, WV... Notable solver: Phil Yu (asmallkitten)
 
Both are easy to learn, but hard to master. In Roux, you mainly only need the CMLL algorithms (can be done in 2 looks, so 9 algs), rest is intuitive. Notable solver: Alexander Lau (5BLD)

In ZZ, you need to understand EO, and Learn the OLL's that have the edges oriented, and PLL. In ZZ COLL can come in handy, since all the edges are oriented. In that case, you need to learn COLL+EPLL. ZZ is better for OH (my opinion). In ZZ you can also use CLS, WV... Notable solver: Phil Yu (asmallkitten)


Thank you for the advice, i have been wanting to start learning to try OH, also tanks for telling me some of the people who are good with the method.
P
 
just watch some solves of 5BLD and a small kitten, then you will see, which one is "looks cooler"

ZZ is great for OH, EO is difficult at the beginning, but then ZZ is quite easy, I think it could be difficult, to get your movecount low, but that's all. Last Layer is also quite nice, you could learn COLL, winter variations, ZZLL and ZBLL, so the number of algs depends on what you want to learn. Same with Roux, it's difficult at the beginning, but you will get used to it. There is only one thing. It's a lot harder to master Roux than mastering Fridrich or ZZ for example.

1. ZZ, if it you understand quickly, how EO works
2. Depends on what you want to learn.
3. ZZ fast turning, Roux smooth turning. But that's only how i do with these methods.
4.?
 
Hi, just a background from where I'm coming from here; I'm a sub 25 ZZ solver, but i've learnt and experimented with Roux, CFOP (my former method) and Petrus, hope my opinion helps!

Which one is easier to learn?

Well, ZZ is a method with a very difficult learning curve, in a sense of things, neither of them are very difficult to learn, but ZZ is definitely harder to grasp and to get fast at, mainly during the beginning stages of learning it. However, both of which can be easily learnt with all the great tutorials out there! Waffle has great tutorial on Roux and Asmallkitten has a great tutorial on ZZ, I suggest maybe reading about the concepts of each method as seeing which one appeals to you most :)

Which one uses less algorithms?

In a general view of things, Roux has less algorithms, there are people out there who can easily get sub 20 with roux with simply basic 9 algorithms (2 PLLs, 7 OLL to orient corners), you can however, also learn CMLL/COLL for roux in order to turn 2 steps into 1 (if that makes sense) with the expense of course of learning more algorithms. ZZ, at its most basic form has OCLL then PLL last layer, meaning it has 7 + 21, which makes 28 algorithms in and of itself, of course you have the choice of using 2 look PLL which cuts it down to only 2 PLLs and 4 EPLLs making it 7+6, making 13 algorithms. In addition to that, ZZ can have many add-ons that Roux can't have, due to the different approach in the last layer. In ZZ you can learn phasing, and then ZZLL (149 algs) for 1 look last layer, and many more. So basically, Roux has less algorithms, however, it has lass flexibility in HOW the cuber would like to approach their method (if thats fair to say)

How would you describe how Roux/ZZ works?

Roux: For Roux, it saves on move counts by building two 1x2x3 blocks on the lower left and right hand side, thus after orienting and permuting the top layer corners, the entire solve is 2-gen, meaning solvable with only turning 2 sides, the M slice and U moves. This last step however, is intuition and can really only be trained (from what I know) by practice, though I'm sure its not very difficult for one to get accustomed to this with enough effort :) Its a very simple, efficient and personally its one of the most, if not the most fun methods to use out there :)

ZZ: For ZZ, the beginning of collecting bad edges and fixing them while forming the line (ZZ's version of a cross) is what makes it very difficult to grasp and creating a major learning curve. But once the EOLine (name of the previously mentioned step) has been solved, the ENTIRE F2L can be solved with L, U and R moves thus depleting the need for rotations. Due to the fact that the edges have been oriented, the last layer for ZZ would already give you the cross, hence cutting you down to only 7 OLLs. Then the last layer can be completed just like Petrus and CFOP/Fridrich.

Note that both these methods have block building aspects to them that many may find challenging to do fast when first learning them.

which one looks cooler?

Honestly, Roux looks cooler, because it has TONS, and i mean TONNNNNSSS of M-slice moves, and to dare I say, M-slice moves are the sexiest moves in cubing :D

Hope all this helps, and your "newbie ness" doesn't bother me at all, just maybe do some research cause there are plenty of resources and threads regarding both methods that you can learn from. Wish you all the best in which ever method you choose! :)
 
I'd advise that you learn both and decide which one feels better to you. I'm sub25 with CFOP, ZZ, and Roux, but I like Roux the best, so that's what I use. But if I get a scramble with a really easy cross+F2L or an easy EOLine (sometimes EO skip), or a really ugly first block, then I might switch methods for that solve.
 
If you are good with RrMU algorithms, Roux will probably end up faster for you. If you are good with LUR algorithms, ZZ will probably end up faster for you. Roux has almost no L turns and ZZ has almost no M turns.

The two methods both share blockbuilding, no rotations, relatively few moves, and slightly more difficult recognition than CFOP. And C*LL, if you want to use COLL/EPLL for ZZ.
 
Hi, just a background from where I'm coming from here; I'm a sub 25 ZZ solver, but i've learnt and experimented with Roux, CFOP (my former method) and Petrus, hope my opinion helps!

Which one is easier to learn?

Well, ZZ is a method with a very difficult learning curve, in a sense of things, neither of them are very difficult to learn, but ZZ is definitely harder to grasp and to get fast at, mainly during the beginning stages of learning it. However, both of which can be easily learnt with all the great tutorials out there! Waffle has great tutorial on Roux and Asmallkitten has a great tutorial on ZZ, I suggest maybe reading about the concepts of each method as seeing which one appeals to you most :)

Which one uses less algorithms?

In a general view of things, Roux has less algorithms, there are people out there who can easily get sub 20 with roux with simply basic 9 algorithms (2 PLLs, 7 OLL to orient corners), you can however, also learn CMLL/COLL for roux in order to turn 2 steps into 1 (if that makes sense) with the expense of course of learning more algorithms. ZZ, at its most basic form has OCLL then PLL last layer, meaning it has 7 + 21, which makes 28 algorithms in and of itself, of course you have the choice of using 2 look PLL which cuts it down to only 2 PLLs and 4 EPLLs making it 7+6, making 13 algorithms. In addition to that, ZZ can have many add-ons that Roux can't have, due to the different approach in the last layer. In ZZ you can learn phasing, and then ZZLL (149 algs) for 1 look last layer, and many more. So basically, Roux has less algorithms, however, it has lass flexibility in HOW the cuber would like to approach their method (if thats fair to say)

How would you describe how Roux/ZZ works?

Roux: For Roux, it saves on move counts by building two 1x2x3 blocks on the lower left and right hand side, thus after orienting and permuting the top layer corners, the entire solve is 2-gen, meaning solvable with only turning 2 sides, the M slice and U moves. This last step however, is intuition and can really only be trained (from what I know) by practice, though I'm sure its not very difficult for one to get accustomed to this with enough effort :) Its a very simple, efficient and personally its one of the most, if not the most fun methods to use out there :)

ZZ: For ZZ, the beginning of collecting bad edges and fixing them while forming the line (ZZ's version of a cross) is what makes it very difficult to grasp and creating a major learning curve. But once the EOLine (name of the previously mentioned step) has been solved, the ENTIRE F2L can be solved with L, U and R moves thus depleting the need for rotations. Due to the fact that the edges have been oriented, the last layer for ZZ would already give you the cross, hence cutting you down to only 7 OLLs. Then the last layer can be completed just like Petrus and CFOP/Fridrich.

Note that both these methods have block building aspects to them that many may find challenging to do fast when first learning them.

which one looks cooler?

Honestly, Roux looks cooler, because it has TONS, and i mean TONNNNNSSS of M-slice moves, and to dare I say, M-slice moves are the sexiest moves in cubing :D

Hope all this helps, and your "newbie ness" doesn't bother me at all, just maybe do some research cause there are plenty of resources and threads regarding both methods that you can learn from. Wish you all the best in which ever method you choose! :)

Thank you! That was very helpful and informative. :) I agree M slices are extremely sexy.
I will have to try out both if I want to find which I like better, I like zz, but roux is looking really good to.


Apple, I don't really know, but it just does. XD my favorite part is intuitive f2l, I like intuitive much better then mechanical.

Ickathu, I think I may try doing that, thank you for the advise.

Qqref, thanks for that advice, I really love m slices, right and up turns! So maybe roux would be better for me in the end.
 
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CubeRoots is a ZZ user and I seem to remember him saying he wished he hadn't chosen it. I realise this is just one case but I don't have another case to present.
 
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