Religion?

[Zane_C]

Science proved how the universe began. No god in that anymore.

Sorry, that's not a very valid argument. Yes, this is an expanding universe and all matter traces back to a singularity ~13.7 billion years ago.
But there are religious people that believe in the Big Bang, they just believe the Big Bang was God/caused by God. I'm not one of these people by the way...

 

[ZamHalen]

Due to an assumption that you made...

I'm referring to the assumption of: no current evidence =impossible. Lets simplify this argument to the existence of a God.We as humans (and possibly creations) cannot fully prove or disprove either stance. Let's tag onto the big bang (yes another very probable theory). Now lets take a few basic ideas such as every effect has a cause. Now we can say that the big bang was caused by endless causes and effects(both finite things therefore unable to be infinite) strung together or that somewhere along the line there was an an unmovable mover (a god/ or infinite, force call it what you will.)In the end until we truly know for sure anything which may point at a God or lack thereof (this is a very vague example), it is left to personal philosophy and beliefs of people to decide what they have faith in or have no faith in.(I think I got off topic)
Never mind while I was writing it it came up so lol.

 

[collinbxyz]

Sorry, that's not a very valid argument. Yes, this is an expanding universe and all matter traces back to a singularity ~13.7 billion years ago.
But there are religious people that believe in the Big Bang, they just believe the Big Bang was God/caused by God. I'm not one of these people by the way...

I understand this, but as I said before, I am pretty sure there are theories that cover everything about the big bang, scientifically.

 

[Zane_C]

I understand this, but as I said before, I am pretty sure there are theories that cover everything about the big bang, scientifically.

Not everything. There's still the question of how all the matter got there in the first place.

 

[emolover]

I understand this, but as I said before, I am pretty sure there are theories that cover everything about the big bang, scientifically.

But than what caused the big bang? I know there ideas of matter/anti, or the universal sheet therory(multiple universes, big bang starts when sheets come in contact). But how did those things happen?

We just don't know.

 

[collinbxyz]

Not everything. There's still the question of how all the matter got there in the first place.

Okay, my bad.

Oh yes, and some people will say something like, "But how did nothing turn into something during the big bang? How did it start? The only explanation is that God made the big bang." What I have to say to this, is that no god would exist if nothing became something. So if you say that nothing could become something, so god made it; what made god? So everything must have started from nothing, no matter what, even if there is a god. The god must have come from something, which may have come from something, and so on, until it comes to nothing. So the big bang could be from nothing, no problem.

so basically @ Zane's response, it didn't have to come from a god. Everything must have come from nothing.

But than what caused the big bang? I know there ideas of matter/anti, or the universal sheet therory(multiple universes, big bang starts when sheets come in contact). But how did those things happen?

We just don't know.

I am not saying that we do know (I am sorry that I did earlier), but it must all of come from nothing, even god if it existed. So if you believe in god, how did god come to be? Nothing. So if you believe that, you should be able to believe that without a god, the universe could also come from nothing.

 

[Weston]

I'm referring to the assumption of: no current evidence =impossible.

I never said impossible. It's generally a good idea not to base your beliefs on a chance that something might be discovered. If current evidence suggests something, your beliefs will be consistent with that evidence. If evidence changes, you adjust your beliefs accordingly. All I said was that since you guys can't present convincing evidence for the existence of your god, it would be most reasonable to not believe in the existence of your god, AKA be an atheist.

We as humans (and possibly creations) cannot fully prove or disprove either stance. Let's tag onto the big bang (yes another very probable theory). Now lets take a few basic ideas such as every effect has a cause. Now we can say that the big bang was caused by endless causes and effects strung together or that somewhere along the line there was an an unmovable mover (a god/ or infinite, force call it what you will.)

This sounds strangely like the beginning of the cosmological argument.

In the end until we truly know for sure anything which may point at a God or lack thereof (this is a very vague example), it is left to personal philosophy and beliefs of people to decide what they have faith in or have no faith in.(I think I got off topic)

What? No…
If you don't know something, you cant just make stuff up. Thats dumb.

The default/neutral position on the existence of a god is to not believe. Until you present convincing evidence, it's most reasonable to not believe.
I said that atheists are "probably right" because the only tool I have to determine my beliefs is current knowledge. The possibility of future knowledge is irrelevant to me.

 

[emolover]

It's an infinite paradox in which we say god caused it. God often will stand for something we nothing or very little about.

 

[ZamHalen]

Weston you keep taking everything to extremes.
Well I'm done for the night if this thread still exists I'll keep posting.

With the chance of this thread being closed I'd like to mention that I hold most atheists in a place of respect for their willingness to give their beliefs (or not beliefs) and argue them adamantly. I hold them in even higher respect if they're respectful of others beliefs (though there are hardly any like that.)
That being said I might be back later.

 

[Cube Equation]

I'm agnostic. Simply because I don't believe that the existence or non-existence of God can be proven. In fact, I don't think anything could be proven with absolute certainty without making some kind of basic assumptions.

 

[hic0057]

there's not a shred of evidence for.

Um, there are huge amounts of evidence out there that supports the bible. If you wants some, PM me.

Okay, my bad.

Oh yes, and some people will say something like, "But how did nothing turn into something during the big bang? How did it start? The only explanation is that God made the big bang." What I have to say to this, is that no god would exist if nothing became something. So if you say that nothing could become something, so god made it; what made god? So everything must have started from nothing, no matter what, even if there is a god. The god must have come from something, which may have come from something, and so on, until it comes to nothing. So the big bang could be from nothing, no problem.

Many scientist believe that for life, matter and whatever to exist there need to be something eternal out there. Out of all the searching they have done they still haven't found anything.

Solution: There is a god out there.


For any sciencey people who believes the bible doesn't exist because science states the opposite, have a look at the following links or/and PM me. The below links are written by scientist who take the bible literally.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/get-answers/daily-articles
http://creation.com/the-creation-answers-book-index

Also here is a debate between Christians and atheist in how the earth and the universe originated.
http://creation.com/images/pdfs/skeptics_vs_creationists.pdf

 

[chris w]

"Boy: Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth.
Neo: What truth?
Boy: There is no spoon.
Neo: There is no spoon?
Boy: Then you'll see, that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself." - The Matrix (just thought I'd add this perspective to the mix)... but...

This thread will never come to an end, there are too many points of view/opinions and there will never be sufficient evidence to prove one way or another.

 

[Weston]

Many scientist believe that for life, matter and whatever to exist there need to be something eternal out there. Out of all the searching they have done they still haven't found anything.

Solution: There is a god out there.

This is one of the biggest problems with creationists.
You can't just use god to fill holes in knowledge. If you don't know something, then you admit that you don't know. Don't just make up something that "makes sense." Just because something "makes sense" doesn't mean that it's true.

 

[Cube Equation]

Many scientist believe that for life, matter and whatever to exist there need to be something eternal out there. Out of all the searching they have done they still haven't found anything.

Solution: There is a god out there.

Why do these scientists believe that?

 

[Zane_C]

Many scientist believe that for life, matter and whatever to exist there need to be something eternal out there. Out of all the searching they have done they still haven't found anything.

Solution: There is a god out there.

There was a time when lighting was not understood.

Solution: Zeus.

 

[AgentKuo]

the existence of a god(s) is very unlikely. Mainly because there is no need for a god(s). Humans, animals, the Earth, the universe, all of these things do not require a god(s). The reason I am an atheist is because I have no reason to believe that any religion (or religious text) is true, or simply that a god(s) exist.

If someone can prove to me that a god does exist, I'd be happy to acknowledge the gods presence. But so far, no one has been able to convince me.

The poll options are so funny.

Nobody told me how to change it.

That is the only kind of evidence anyone can provide.

None isn't very much...

This is one of the biggest problems with creationists.
You can't just use god to fill holes in knowledge. If you don't know something, then you admit that you don't know. Don't just make up something that "makes sense." Just because something "makes sense" doesn't mean that it's true.

Yes.

 

[Cube Equation]

the existence of a god(s) is very unlikely. Mainly because there is no need for a god(s). Humans, animals, the Earth, the universe, all of these things do not require a god(s). The reason I am an atheist is because I have no reason to believe that any religion (or religious text) is true, or simply that a god(s) exist.

Not that I am a theist, but am you claiming that God does not exist simply because the universe does not require Him/Her for its existence? So merely because something is unnecessary, it does not exist. Personally, I don't think this is a logical argument against the existence of God.

 

[hic0057]

This is one of the biggest problems with creationists.
You can't just use god to fill holes in knowledge. If you don't know something, then you admit that you don't know. Don't just make up something that "makes sense." Just because something "makes sense" doesn't mean that it's true.

Can you please say some of these holes creationist face.

Why do these scientists believe that?

Isn't it just plain obvious that you can't create something out of nothing. A quote from Zane C from just the last place

Not everything. There's still the question of how all the matter got there in the first place.

Many scientist on both sides of the argument say that it must of come from something that is eternal (doesn't have a start or an end)

 

[Weston]

Can you please say some of these holes creationist face.

Um...
How about what we were talking about?
What created the universe?

 

[Zane_C]

Can you please say some of these holes creationist face.

Lol.

Well, science has filled a lot of these holes that were once faced.
As mentioned in my previous post, thunder was once one of these holes. The Greek god Zeus was created to 'fill this hole' of knowledge.
We now know thanks to science, thunder is just a discharge of static electricity.
Nowadays, the holes creationists face relate to the beginning of the Universe and/or life.

Many scientist on both sides of the argument say that it must of come from something that is eternal (doesn't have a start or an end)

There once wasn't a universe... and now there is. There's proof that you get something from nothing.