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[Help Thread] Pyraminx Discussion

XTowncuber

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Yeah, it's kinda useless though. Now 4 flip though:
B' L B' U B L B' U L B' UB' U' B L' U' B L' B U' B L'
L' R L' U L R L' U R L' U
L' U' L R' U' L R' L U' L R'

Some of these are ok, and 4 flip comes up every now and then for me.
I was skyping Rami yesterday and he randomly came up with (Rw' U')*9= 4 flip. Not really all that fast, but pretty neat.
also (R U R' L' U' L)*2 is not bad.
 

Tim Major

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The reason you cannot turn fast with top first is because you are not used to it. I think L4E is completely impossible to turn fast with. Do you use a lot of fingertricks? Those are honestly pretty impractical for top first. What was your average TPS with L4E?
Only just saw this. I definitely turned considerably faster with L4E, L4E just has more "spammability" (like R' L R L') and yes, I used some fingertricks, but those have definitely decreased significantly since mostly swapping methods. Top first methods (I feel instead of answering "I use keyhole/oka/bell/oneflip/nutella/WO/IWO/intuitive top->L3E" we should just call the method as a whole "top first", or maybe some similar name due to people solving left vertice first instead of top :p)


(new?) Method Discussion


Anyway, I came to this thread to discuss a variation of Bell. It's more like one-flip/WO, in that you setup to the Bell top (2 edges swapped with one flipped) except you use those 2 slots to solve the centres. I used Justin's solver to generate a lot of algs for each case up to a few depths over maximum. I can sub 1.5 every case easily, and sub 1 most (for TPS comparison, I do U-perm on Pyra in about .6-.8 compared to Drew's .4...). Obviously, the benefits of learning all cases is you can choose the best top first method in the scramble, and generally cancel the setup into the case. I can post the algs later from my computer (though I only copied across the algs that I thought were the fastest), but what do you guys think? Also naming convention, Wedel Odder so should this be called Bell Major? :p

Anyway, it's the most to learn out of any set because for one, I feel there are no cases NOT worth learning, at least, they're all reasonably fast (some are fast but potentially obsolete due to better setups in some solves). There are also mirrors as Bell has 2 cases so this has twice as many as oneflip. I was debating not sharing this like Mats originally was with his last slot skips, but I decided I wanted some opinions on this.

Also inb4 "I already use this intuitively lel" -> I'd be surprised, as lots of these cases aren't very intuitive.
 
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XTowncuber

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I use this intuitively lel
first of all, to make sure I understand correctly, an example of an alg would be B'ULRL'?

1-flip, WO, Nutella, and "Bell Major" are all subsets of what I like to think of as one method. There are 16 subsets for the 16 cases that you get when you position 3 edges randomly around a center. You can name your method whatever you want, but at least I have thought of it before (and probably odder too, he's thought of everything).

The other subset I have found to be quite nice is the case that you get when you do RBLR. I've found all the fast algs for that.

I'd be interested to see what algs you have found, so psot if you're willing to share.

We need a pyra alg database. I've recently tried typing up all the pyra algs I know....maybe we need some kind of shared document/thread?
 

Tim Major

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I use this intuitively lel
first of all, to make sure I understand correctly, an example of an alg would be B'ULRL'?

1-flip, WO, Nutella, and "Bell Major" are all subsets of what I like to think of as one method. There are 16 subsets for the 16 cases that you get when you position 3 edges randomly around a center. You can name your method whatever you want, but at least I have thought of it before (and probably odder too, he's thought of everything).

The other subset I have found to be quite nice is the case that you get when you do RBLR. I've found all the fast algs for that.

I'd be interested to see what algs you have found, so psot if you're willing to share.

We need a pyra alg database. I've recently tried typing up all the pyra algs I know....maybe we need some kind of shared document/thread?

Yeah, I've thought about those 16 subsets, some kinda overlap which is both nice and disappointing.

Unnamed TF Set Left Face. Flipped edge position (L/R): (how to solve centres): alg
(R): (nothing): L R L' U' R' U
-----------------------------------
(R): (L): L R U' R'
(R): (R'): U L' U' R L R
------------------------------------
(R): (L'R): L R B' L B
(R): (LR'): R B' L B R
------------------------------------
(R): (LR): L U L U' L' R
(R): (R'L'): U L R' B L U' B' <- worst case, find a better alg for me?
------------------------------------
(R): (R'L'B): R' U B' L B' L U'
(R): (LRB'): L' U' B' R U L'
------------------------------------
(R): (R'L'B'): R' U L B L B U'
(R): (RLB): L R B L' B L B'


Couple of the cases are meh, but I took 10-15 minutes to find these so they can all be improved I'm sure. (well not all...)

Edit: I've only edited the speedsolving wiki once I think, why not just make "Pyraminx Top First Methods" have step one->solve 3 edges around a centre and centres, step two solve l3e. Then list the documented ones (I can type up algs) and some final notes. I posted some algs in this thread here: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?30268-The-Uber-Monthly-3x3-10-000-Cube-Marathon!!!&p=922001#post922001
You agreed with the cases I chose in your video except for this WO case: R' L R2 L' R' L' R' L2
 
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Tim Major

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Hey guys, I have no experience making a wiki page, but I really feel one should be made for Pyraminx. I was thinking about calling it "Pyraminx Top First" or "Pyra Vertice First". I don't really care for what we call it, but once we decide we can make the page with that name.

I just wrote this in about 5 minutes: http://pastie.org/8489307

I can fill in algs for all methods and write a little about each picture. What I need help with is getting the formatting and initial description up to Wiki standards. Assuming Justin Jaffray is ok with it, I'll ask for permission, we have a decent way of creating images for cases: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17026863/Umbrella/build/umbrella.html (or we can use a superior colour scheme: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17026863/umbrella_for_zbftw/umbrella.html )

So if anyone knows how to format properly (compare to other methods pages for reference). If you can give an example embed, and set up a page with proper formatting, I can fill in all the information needed. As to naming the sets. We have two options. Name them One-flip, WO, Nutella etc, or just call them set 1, set 2, etc. Problem with giving them their names is inconsistency for unnamed sets but that's ok.

Pyraminx has barely any documentation on the Wiki, I think we should use it as a sort of alg database, but we need decent formatting too.
 

XTowncuber

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Unnamed TF Set Left Face. Flipped edge position (L/R): (how to solve centres): alg
(R): (nothing): L R L' U' R' U
-----------------------------------
(R): (L): L R U' R'
(R): (R'): U L' U' R L R
------------------------------------
(R): (L'R): L R B' L B rotate alg by [U' R]
(R): (LR'): R B' L B R rotate alg by
------------------------------------
(R): (LR): L U L U' L' R use L R' U' R U R (if you do the last 5 moves without regrips it's awesome)
(R): (R'L'): U L R' B L U' B' <- worst case, find a better alg for me? B' U' L' R' U' R U'(same movecount but way better)
------------------------------------
(R): (R'L'B): R' U B' L B' L U' rotate the alg by a
(R): (LRB'): L' U' B' R U L'
------------------------------------
(R): (R'L'B'): R' U L B L B U' this is fine if you execute the first U as Dw
(R): (RLB): L R B L' B L B' alt. alg: L U' R R U' R' U R


Some added algs and executions. Most of the execution stuff is obvious, but I went ahead and put it in there.
 

Tim Major

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Some added algs and executions. Most of the execution stuff is obvious, but I went ahead and put it in there.
Yeah, I executed most of them similarly, for (R): (RLB) apart from the alg it's 2 gen and ends with L3E at the front where you want it, so I kinda rotate it. I think I prefer my alg for it.

I think our turning styles must be pretty different. I hate U moves.

Thanks for the algs and everything.

With: (R): (R'L'B'): R' U L B L B U' this is fine if you execute the first U as DwI execute the first L as Rw so the alg is: R' U Rw R L R U' ending with L3E at front.
 
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XTowncuber

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here are the algs for the other subset I mentioned:
(Edge with one sticker solved on right) (top can be set up with LRBL)

(R): LR'L'ULR'L'
(L'): B'R'B'L'URU'B' this is awful.
------------------------------
(RL): R'L'R'UR'L'R
(R’B’): L’B’L’R’L’
------------------------------
(RL’): LR’L’UR’L’
(R’L): R’L’UR’L’R
------------------------------
(RLB): R’UR’BL’UL’
(R’L’B’): R’L’RB’R’
------------------------------
(RL’B’): R’L’B’R’
(RLB’): L’R’B’L’R’

These were all found by hand, so let me know if you see something better. Some of the cases are pretty much worthless, but others are very nice.
 

uvafan

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Okso I tried to mod my pyraminx - I ended up only doing edges because I couldn't unscrew some of the centers because there was a ton of gunk in the hole thingy...

anyway, I did a pretty rough job as I am terrible with hardware. My pyra now seems to turn faster when I don't lockup, but it locks up much, much more. Will this be fixed if I break it in a bunch, or is my pyra screwed? Thanks...
 
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Okso I tried to mod my pyraminx - I ended up only doing edges because I couldn't unscrew some of the centers because there was a ton of gunk in the hole thingy...

anyway, I did a pretty rough job as I am terrible with hardware. My pyra now seems to turn faster when I don't lockup, but it locks up much, much more. Will this be fixed if I break it in a bunch, or is my pyra screwed? Thanks...
What Pyraminx is it?
 
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