Petrus as a beginner's method?

[lerenard]

I originally learned to solve the cube about 5 years ago using LBL and then moving to commutators for the last layer instead of algs because I couldn't remember them. I never timed myself or anything, I just wanted to be able to do it and I could. When I got back into cubing I learned Petrus straight away and although I wasn't very fast at first I understood what to do and never got frustrated or confused by the guide.

Now I average ~30 seconds and I try to teach people Petrus as a beginner's method but everyone just seems completely lost. I can't stress enough that you need to solve pieces relative to each other before putting them in place, but as soon as I have them try something on their own they just put in one corner and then ask me how to get the edges in. Also they seem to have a ridiculously hard time understanding EO, and if I make it as far as the LL I teach them niklas and sune (2 sunes can be used as a U-perm as well) but they never can remember the algs or how to use them. I hate teaching people LBL because it seems so mindless and inefficient. I would prefer keyhole, but they even have a hard time with that.

So my question is this: can Petrus be a beginner's method, and if so how can I teach it to people in a way that they will actually want to solve a cube a second time once they finish?

 

[Rcuber123]

You can teach them LBL and then teach them Petrus.

 

[Dene]

People are stupid. Ignore the ones that don't get it, and stick with the ones that are genuinely interested.

 

[~Adam~]

Alternatively teach the ones Petrus who you think are capable and teach the others layer by layer.

 

[maps600]

People are stupid. Ignore the ones that don't get it, and stick with the ones that are genuinely interested.

Unfortunately that's what you really have to do, I have found out.

 

[PenguinsDontFly]

I tried to learn petrus as my first advanced method, and I couldnt even build a 2x2x2 block. It is a very hard method for beginners to understand, regardless of their mental and academic capabilities.

 

[CriticalCubing]

Petrus will be a bit advances for beginners as blockbuilding is involved. First make them learn basic LBL and then Petrus or Roux or CFOP or ZZ, any method they want to choose. If for speedsolving, I wouldnt suggest Petrus though. For FMC, Petrus is good

 

[PenguinsDontFly]

Petrus will be a bit advances for beginners as blockbuilding is involved. First make them learn basic LBL and then Petrus or Roux or CFOP or ZZ, any method they want to choose. If for speedsolving, I wouldnt suggest Petrus though. For FMC, Petrus is good

I was considering petrus because of its low movecount, thinking that it can be faster than cfop, which can be 20 moves more inneficient. Then I found roux and.... well here i am 7 months later, an almost sub 13 roux solver. I think roux is an easier method to understand (the way dee dub explained it). Additionally, there are a lot fewer petrus videos than roux, cfop and zz. I tought my friend beginner roux with 2 algs, and he learned easier than lbl, as it is 5 less algs.

 

[irontwig]

Petrus will be a bit advances for beginners as blockbuilding is involved. First make them learn basic LBL and then Petrus or Roux or CFOP or ZZ, any method they want to choose. If for speedsolving, I wouldnt suggest Petrus though. For FMC, Petrus is good

Actually when I tried to learn Petrus (before I could solve a cube) I got to the LL, but then gave up since I didn't want to memorize a bunch of stuff (also Lars' explanation with target stickers or whatever is a bit strange).

 

[mDiPalma]

one way to simplify petrus to to separate seemingly easy steps into even easier components. ive taught many people this method. it only requires 2 algs: niklas and fishy (sune)

instead of a 2x2x2 block, have them turn randomly until they get a corner-edge pair, then have them match that up with 1 edge, then with another edge.

instead of a 3x2x2 block, have them insert 1 edge, then keyhole the remaining corner, then keyhole the remaining edge.

for EO, tell them to check if each edge cannot be placed in the correct position 1 at a time, and once they find two, have them fix those.

for F2L, they can place the cross-edge, then they can keyhole up until the last F2L edge (which they can still keyhole via L D [R U' R' U] D' L', with the edge at UF).

for CP, use Niklas (L' U R U' L U R') to swap the corners on the right (alg used a max of 2 times, for diagonal swap case)

for CO, have them place the corner they want to orient at UBL, then apply L' U' L U' L' U2 L R U R' U R U2 R' (left fishy, right fishy) until the corner at UBL is oriented, then apply U', and repeat for all corners

for EP, use right fishy, up, left fishy (R U R' U R U2 R' U L' U' L U' L' U2 L) until they get a solved bar of 3. put the solved bar of 3 in the back and reapply the alg until the cube is solved.

don't teach them the inverses of these sune LL algs (one alg starts with left fishy, the other starts with right fishy. otherwise they will get confused.)

 

[CriticalCubing]

one way to simplify petrus to to separate seemingly easy steps into even easier components. ive taught many people this method. it only requires 2 algs: niklas and fishy (sune)

instead of a 2x2x2 block, have them turn randomly until they get a corner-edge pair, then have them match that up with 1 edge, then with another edge.

instead of a 3x2x2 block, have them insert 1 edge, then keyhole the remaining corner, then keyhole the remaining edge.

for EO, tell them to check if each edge cannot be placed in the correct position 1 at a time, and once they find two, have them fix those.

for F2L, they can place the cross-edge, then they can keyhole up until the last F2L edge (which they can still keyhole via L D [R U' R' U] D' L', with the edge at UF).

for CP, use Niklas (L' U R U' L U R') to swap the corners on the right (alg used a max of 2 times, for diagonal swap case)

for CO, have them place the corner they want to orient at UBL, then apply L' U' L U' L' U2 L R U R' U R U2 R' (left fishy, right fishy) until the corner at UBL is oriented, then apply U', and repeat for all corners

for EP, use right fishy, up, left fishy (R U R' U R U2 R' U L' U' L U' L' U2 L) until they get a solved bar of 3. put the solved bar of 3 in the back and reapply the alg until the cube is solved.

don't teach them the inverses of these sune LL algs (one alg starts with left fishy, the other starts with right fishy. otherwise they will get confused.)

That is some very excellent helpful tips you gave. I never though 2x2x2 block and 2x2x3 block can be so easy. But after we have the 2x2x3 we do the EO right, fixing bad edges into good edges, so for beginner how do they identify it? And after they idetify it how do they fix it? And then when doing F2L, how do they do EO? that is using CFOP f2l and not keyhole.

 

[lerenard]

one way to simplify petrus to to separate seemingly easy steps into even easier components. ive taught many people this method. it only requires 2 algs: niklas and fishy (sune)

instead of a 2x2x2 block, have them turn randomly until they get a corner-edge pair, then have them match that up with 1 edge, then with another edge.

instead of a 3x2x2 block, have them insert 1 edge, then keyhole the remaining corner, then keyhole the remaining edge.

for EO, tell them to check if each edge cannot be placed in the correct position 1 at a time, and once they find two, have them fix those.

for F2L, they can place the cross-edge, then they can keyhole up until the last F2L edge (which they can still keyhole via L D [R U' R' U] D' L', with the edge at UF).

for CP, use Niklas (L' U R U' L U R') to swap the corners on the right (alg used a max of 2 times, for diagonal swap case)

for CO, have them place the corner they want to orient at UBL, then apply L' U' L U' L' U2 L R U R' U R U2 R' (left fishy, right fishy) until the corner at UBL is oriented, then apply U', and repeat for all corners

for EP, use right fishy, up, left fishy (R U R' U R U2 R' U L' U' L U' L' U2 L) until they get a solved bar of 3. put the solved bar of 3 in the back and reapply the alg until the cube is solved.

don't teach them the inverses of these sune LL algs (one alg starts with left fishy, the other starts with right fishy. otherwise they will get confused.)

I feel like this is my problem. Even though a beginner would probably be able to grasp this, I just don't feel like it captures the beauty and simplicity of Petrus. I don't like how a beginner method has to be so dumb and mindless for non-cubers to understand that it loses any and all efficiency it may have had. You have to remove everything that makes cubing fun (figuring things out on your own, among other things) in order to get a beginner to solve a cube. Even when I try to explain some of these concepts in the most simple way possible and do stuff like first make a pair, then add one edge, then add another edge, I just feel like they don't get it at all, even though when I was learning Petrus it made perfect sense.

I guess some people just can't solve a cube and understand any portion of how they did it. Even though I just learned from Lars' website, his concepts like targeting certain corners and finding bad edges made perfect sense after a little, and I was using mirrors and stuff without even realizing it, whereas it takes a really long time to try and explain the difference between left and right sune (I've resigned to treating them as completely separate entities...)

I've given up trying to teach people to solve a cube. I always felt like it was fun and not too difficult, but it seems that most people just can't wrap their minds around it, even if they can eventually bring the cube to a solved state.

Also, even though Petrus may not be the fastest method, it teaches you enough about blockbuilding that you can move on to something more complicated like Heise or FreeFOP and have a good background for it.

 

[minstorm340]

i just tell them to watch a tutorial and check on them every few minutes