# Comparison of methods for a beginner speedsolver (Petrus, Fridrich, Corners First...)

#### rybaby

##### Member
Hi everybody. I'm new to the forums so please excuse me if I am wrong on anything

I am not a beginner to cubing, just to speedcubing

I would like to find a method in which I can average mid-20s with decent practice. I have started to learn a Corners First Method (like that of former WR holder Minh Thai). It involves orienting bottom corners, then top corners, then permute all corners. all edges of two opposing layers except one are solved intuitively. The last edge is solved with an algorithm that simultaneously orients the M-slice edges. M-slice edges are solved using one of three short sequences.

With Petrus, I would probably learn the basic 3-look LL (Corner Orientation-->C Permutation-->Edge Perm.)

As for Fridrich, I would do intuitive F2L then 2-look OLL then 1 look PLL. I would follow the intermediate OLL described in Dan Harris' Speedsolving the Cube.

I have thought about learning Waterman, but the full method requires over 100 algorithms (some very similar). However, Waterman averaged ~16 seconds in the early 80s, so this is an extremely fast method (also few moves).

I would appreciate any thoughts on these methods as well as others.

Thanks

EDIT*: For Petrus, I should probably clarify that I would Learn LL in which you orient corners, and use Sune algorithms. So if I get a case with two corners permuted, I would have to do two Sunes. I could learn an alg for all of the permute cases (I don't think there are too many). Also, I have a decent cube.

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#### cowabunga

##### Member
You should look at Roux method. it is very intuitive and needs only 9 alg with 2-look CMLL

#### Ickathu

##### Member
With practice, I think most, if not all, methods can get to a mid-20 average. However, I think the easiest would be Petrus, Roux, ZZ, or CFOP. After I got to a mid20 average with CFOP, I was able to get to a mid 20 average with those other 3 methods within 200 solves.

#### CheesecakeCuber

##### Member
Well not trying to be pushy here but you should consider Roux as well. I started speedcubing with Fridrich (2-OLL and 1-PLL) and I hit a giant brick wall at 30 seconds. I'd get a couple sub-30s but my average just wouldn't go down, even if I slowed down and tried to look ahead. So finally, I switched to Roux and boy has it been awesome! I started Roux about 4-5 months ago and I was averaging somewhere in the low 1:xx.xx. With help from Waffle and 5BLD's tuts, I now average about 23-25 seconds.

If I'm correct, you said that the corners first method you use integrates solving the M-Slice as a step. This is similar to Roux. Also, Roux is very intuitive because of the block building and the Edge Orientation cycling. Hope this helped! Remember, in the end its your choice.

#### rybaby

##### Member
how do you build the 2nd roux block? I've experimented before and I always found it easiest to do it in the style of F2L...

#### Ickathu

##### Member
I found that the best way to learn Roux SB was to look up example solves and try to follow along with the solution. It's hard to teach yourself all the little tricks that make it not F2L on your own.

#### somerandomkidmike

##### Member
Honestly, it really doesn't matter that much which method you choose from the main 4 plus waterman. You will probably sub-20 eventually.

Edit: Waterman you can average sub-20 with very few algorithms. 2 look CLL and the same algorithms you'd use in the Ortega (minh thai style CF) method.

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#### rybaby

##### Member
Honestly, it really doesn't matter that much which method you choose from the main 4 plus waterman. You will probably sub-20 eventually.

Edit: Waterman you can average sub-20 with very few algorithms. 2 look CLL and the same algorithms you'd use in the Ortega (minh thai style CF) method.
For Waterman, should I leave a "keyhole" (unsolved edge) on the original side so I can solve the opposite edges intuitively?
thx

#### CheesecakeCuber

##### Member
how do you build the 2nd roux block? I've experimented before and I always found it easiest to do it in the style of F2L...
Kind of the same concept that I used for my optimal first block solution. Just remember that you're restricted to R, U, M, and r moves. r moves really come in handy with second block. Also remember to pair using the M slice!

#### Kirjava

##### Colourful

With a wealth of documentation you should have all the resources and guides you need with it to get what you want.

#### rybaby

##### Member

With a wealth of documentation you should have all the resources and guides you need with it to get what you want.
Would 3-lool LL be able to get mid-20s?

yes it would

#### TheOneOnTheLeft

##### tOOtl
I don't even have full 3-look last layer and I'm averaging under 25 seconds with CFOP

#### rybaby

##### Member
Well not trying to be pushy here but you should consider Roux as well. I started speedcubing with Fridrich (2-OLL and 1-PLL) and I hit a giant brick wall at 30 seconds. I'd get a couple sub-30s but my average just wouldn't go down, even if I slowed down and tried to look ahead. So finally, I switched to Roux and boy has it been awesome! I started Roux about 4-5 months ago and I was averaging somewhere in the low 1:xx.xx. With help from Waffle and 5BLD's tuts, I now average about 23-25 seconds.

If I'm correct, you said that the corners first method you use integrates solving the M-Slice as a step. This is similar to Roux. Also, Roux is very intuitive because of the block building and the Edge Orientation cycling. Hope this helped! Remember, in the end its your choice.
What are the limots dor time woth Roux? Could I get 20-25 second averages with two look CLL?

#### qqwref

##### Member
You could theoretically average under 9 seconds with two-look CMLL. You won't, but it's possible.

#### jayefbe

##### Member
What are the limots dor time woth Roux? Could I get 20-25 second averages with two look CLL?
I think you mean CMLL. And yes, it's possible to average sub-20 with 2-look CMLL.

edit: and ninja'd...

#### kunparekh18

##### Member
arvind1999 averages 12-13 with 2 look CMLL

#### Ooi Yan Qing

##### Member
i'm sub16 with 2-look CMLL, and you can definitely sub20 with 3-look LL if you use CFOP

#### Smiles

##### Member
i'm sub 20 with roux and i'm absolutely terrible at the method. i forget CMLL algs and my 2nd block recognition and look ahead is trash.