# Best time with Petrus F2L + beginners OLL/PLL?

#### Rpotts

##### Member
learn f2l/get good at it.
Use any LL method
???
Profit (sub20)

#### Eleredo

##### Member
Thanks everyone for the answers.

Beginner's corner+edge and 4 look last layer can get you to average sub 20.
Just learn the algs >

Beginner's corner edge, does that consist of inserting a corner in its place (but not necessarily correctly), then do either R' F R F', L F' L' F or take corner out and pair up (so 3 cases)? If so, then I can do that already.

I get these times with it:

times (reset):
57.02, 57.33, 1:00.34, 1:00.79, 1:00.81, 47.84, 50.44, 51.07, 54.93, 54.71, 44.17, 55.70, 51.19, 57.66, 58.68, DNF(31.88), 58.60, 56.20, 56.80, 50.59, 51.21, 1:01.45, 1:02.41, 59.17, 52.94, 56.01, 54.60, 52.60

stats: (hide)
number of times: 27/28
best time: 44.17
worst time: 1:02.41

current avg5: 54.52 (σ = 1.25)
best avg5: 52.07 (σ = 1.88)

current avg12: 55.96 (σ = 3.05)
best avg12: 54.08 (σ = 3.57)

session avg: 55.81 (σ = 3.86)
session mean: 55.38
And 4-Look is the beginner's OLL right?

Well, as for 2-Look, I learned all the algorithms on a day I was like; screw this, I want to be faster now. And I know them now, but it takes ages before I got the cube in the position it needs to be to apply the algorithm + ages to apply the algorithm.

Petrus avg of 5:

times (reset):
1:24.13, 1:24.26, 1:24.96, 1:25.64, 1:15.50

stats: (hide)
number of times: 5/5
best time: 1:15.50
worst time: 1:25.64

current avg5: 1:24.45 (σ = 0.36)
best avg5: 1:24.45 (σ = 0.36)

session avg: 1:24.45 (σ = 0.36)
session mean: 1:22.90

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#### Eleredo

##### Member
Or you could just use Petrus.
I tried and find Petrus' last layer system quite slow. Or maybe I just have to get the hang of it. What's the fastest time someone ever achieved with it?

#### Rpotts

##### Member
you seem very impatient/unwilling to get better but just want to immediately be fast.

good luck

srsly, keep practicing with whatever you choose to do

btw:

beginners corner+edge means placing the 4 first layer corners in after the cross, and then inserting the 4 middle layer edges using 2 algorithms to complete the first 2 layers (f2l)

You should also look into keyhole and f2l if you choose not to pursue petrus.

good petrus users can average sub 15, though it probably isn't as easy to be sub 15 with it as it is CFOP or a variation of it.

#### Eleredo

##### Member
you seem very impatient/unwilling to get better but just want to immediately be fast.

good luck

srsly, keep practicing with whatever you choose to do

btw:

beginners corner+edge means placing the 4 first layer corners in after the cross, and then inserting the 4 middle layer edges using 2 algorithms to complete the first 2 layers (f2l)

You should also look into keyhole and f2l if you choose not to pursue petrus.

good petrus users can average sub 15, though it probably isn't as easy to be sub 15 with it as it is CFOP or a variation of it.
Well, sorry if I sound that way.

I sure want to practice and learn stuff, BUT I want to know whether it's worth it, cause when I start practicing a bad method and learn the algorithms, it's a huge waste of time I could've spent on another, better method.

As for the keyhole method, I looked into that and found that a great method too, but again slow. Again, it might be cause of my lack of experience with the keyhole method. If keyhole has the potential to reach good times such as 30's, I'd be willing to practice it for months or even years to reach good times.

#### Rpotts

##### Member
You should be able to get sub30 times in 3months(ish) with any decent method, if you practice enough.

tl;dr learn f2l

Thanks

#### AngeL

##### Member
Or you could just use Petrus.
I tried and find Petrus' last layer system quite slow. Or maybe I just have to get the hang of it. What's the fastest time someone ever achieved with it?
You can use any last layer method you want with Petrus. The unique feature of the method is blockbuilding F2L + Making sure the LL edges are oriented when you finish F2L. You could use OLL + PLL from there if you wanted.

People have gotten sub-15 with Petrus, although I'm not sure about sub-10.

#### JeffDelucia

##### Member
Stick with your petrus f2l. If you got sub 40 average without 2 looks I'd be impressed but just learn them..its easy.

#### Snigel

##### Member
I used only Petrus before and averaged 40 or something like that, but that could be lowered a lot by getting better at F2L, i spend way too much time simply finding the right cubies. If I'm not mistaken, Petrus averages far below 20 and I assume he means using his own system?

Then I changed LL method to Fridrich. Since I still use Petrus for F2L, I end up with EO already done, so there are very few OLL cases left, and all of them but three I already knew from Petrus.

Then I use one-look PLL, which is 15+ algs or so. I dropped my average with 10 seconds -really- fast by doing that. I'm still seeing improvements although I don't cube very much (current best average is 29.??). Getting sub-20 with this should be quite easy and you don't need to learn that many new algs!

Olle Linge
http://www.snigel.nu

#### ParityErrors

##### Member
IIf I'm not mistaken, Petrus averages far below 20 and I assume he means using his own system?
Lars Petrus said:
My average of 10 best is 21.88 seconds from 2002.
But it is perfectly possible to average sub 30s with Petrus and a 3LLL.

Q

#### CuBeOrDiE

##### Member
Hey, I'm considering trying to convert to Petrus myself. So far I average sub 30 or so with it, and the main things I found that help are to practice building the 2x2x3 in fewest moves, do tons of slow solves and work on look ahead, and transfer to Fridrich LL. Since the edges are already oriented, there are only 7 OLLs to memorize . I also found learning Heise improved my Petrus a lot because it's also block building and helps you solve the cube with intuition and not algorithms.

This worked so far for me, maybe it will work for you to?

#### mr. giggums

##### Member
Just some motovation.

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#### Lars Petrus

##### Member
If you really don't want to learn any more algorithms, you can probably get under 30 with just what you know. I know Gilles Roux averaged under 20 with Petrus using just Niklas, Sune and Allan for the last layer.

Most of the speed increase going from 90 to 20 seconds is faster fingers and faster recognition. Learning new algs is important too, but it's not going to cut more than 20% off your move count and times.

I think the best way to practice block building is spending a lot of time solving for fewest moves. You want to do the 2x2x2 in 6 moves, and the whole cube under 60.

#### JeffDelucia

##### Member
If you really don't want to learn any more algorithms, you can probably get under 30 with just what you know. I know Gilles Roux averaged under 20 with Petrus using just Niklas, Sune and Allan for the last layer.

Most of the speed increase going from 90 to 20 seconds is faster fingers and faster recognition. Learning new algs is important too, but it's not going to cut more than 20% off your move count and times.

I think the best way to practice block building is spending a lot of time solving for fewest moves. You want to do the 2x2x2 in 6 moves, and the whole cube under 60.
Dont listen to lars he doesn't know anything about petrus...

#### Chapuunka

##### Member
Dont listen to lars he doesn't know anything about petrus...
It's not good to confuse people.

#### rubiknewbie

##### Member
Petrus is far more difficult than Fridrich. I cannot for the life of me figure Petrus out!