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Older cubers discussions

ep2

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Aug 20, 2019
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I don't know if it's an age thing, but I've spent the last few days trying to learn a new alg, and once I get it, I forget another one that I knew well before I started. This has seriously happened about 6 times now, I'm swapping algs in and out of my head.

Any ideas?
 

Mike Hughey

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I don't know if it's an age thing, but I've spent the last few days trying to learn a new alg, and once I get it, I forget another one that I knew well before I started. This has seriously happened about 6 times now, I'm swapping algs in and out of my head.

Any ideas?
I've regularly had this problem. It especially happens if there are some sort of similarities between the algorithm that I've newly learned and the one that I've forgotten.

From playing piano, I know similar things can happen when learning similar but different passages of a piece. It's especially common when learning a sonata-form sonata, having memorized the first part of the movement, and then learning a key-changed nearly identical part later in the piece. Suddenly you can't play the first part. Seems like the only solution to this I've found is to then really carefully relearn that first part, paying attention to the differences and also practicing the second part. By paying close attention, you can start to know the distinctions between the two intellectually - not just through muscle memory - and then you can eventually overcome the problem.

I guess I've had success with some algorithms that way. But the thing I don't do that I probably should do is to keep a list of algorithms in my "repertoire", so I can easily go back and relearn one when I suddenly forget it (often after having known it for years and used it thousands of times). I did finally make a list of my OLLs a few years ago, and that has helped me a bit. But I need to do more of it.
 
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Old Tom

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I don't know if it's an age thing, but I've spent the last few days trying to learn a new alg, and once I get it, I forget another one that I knew well before I started. This has seriously happened about 6 times now, I'm swapping algs in and out of my head.

Any ideas?
Since I’m 81, I guess I can talk about this. Learning new algs, remembering thrm, and not forgetting old ones in the process is tough for me. But I am doing it, sort of.

For me it takes drill, drill and more drill. Then repeat. I frequently go through my complete alg set, one after the other, and mix up the order of that also.

Folks talk about muscle memory, and that’s a big part of it. But there is, perhaps unfortunately, just a biit of my brain involved also, when I am doing an alg.

My worst problem is, or was, remembering the direction of rotation. Is it an R, or an R’? I found a rather effective solution for this: I’ve prepared flash cards for each alg, with the sequence broken into groups of four or sometime three, and with clockwise moves written in blue, counter-clockwise in red, double moves (R2) in black.

I can glance at those cards during practice and instantly see the direction, and fairly soon the “color pattern” sticks in my mind, and I’m vaguely aware of it as I execute, later on, without th3 cards. During drill, it takes just the briefest glance at the cards to bring the alg back. It’s been a really effective learning crutch for me.

Similar but separate issue: memory traces for blind: I do the edge trace, fine. Then I do the corners, oops: lost the edges, gone! I’m working on this, but not as good as I was two years ago. Lots of talk about short, medium and long term memory, yeah, but it’s tough!
 

AbsoRuud

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Since I’m 81, I guess I can talk about this. Learning new algs, remembering thrm, and not forgetting old ones in the process is tough for me. But I am doing it, sort of.

For me it takes drill, drill and more drill. Then repeat. I frequently go through my complete alg set, one after the other, and mix up the order of that also.

Folks talk about muscle memory, and that’s a big part of it. But there is, perhaps unfortunately, just a biit of my brain involved also, when I am doing an alg.

My worst problem is, or was, remembering the direction of rotation. Is it an R, or an R’? I found a rather effective solution for this: I’ve prepared flash cards for each alg, with the sequence broken into groups of four or sometime three, and with clockwise moves written in blue, counter-clockwise in red, double moves (R2) in black.

I can glance at those cards during practice and instantly see the direction, and fairly soon the “color pattern” sticks in my mind, and I’m vaguely aware of it as I execute, later on, without th3 cards. During drill, it takes just the briefest glance at the cards to bring the alg back. It’s been a really effective learning crutch for me.

Similar but separate issue: memory traces for blind: I do the edge trace, fine. Then I do the corners, oops: lost the edges, gone! I’m working on this, but not as good as I was two years ago. Lots of talk about short, medium and long term memory, yeah, but it’s tough!
Sounds like you are working hard, Tom. That's pretty amazing. Keep up the good work!
 

mark49152

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My worst problem is, or was, remembering the direction of rotation. Is it an R, or an R’? I found a rather effective solution for this: I’ve prepared flash cards for each alg, with the sequence broken into groups of four or sometime three, and with clockwise moves written in blue, counter-clockwise in red, double moves (R2) in black.
Good stuff Tom. That reminds me of what Badmephisto did. I learned many of my algs from his site when starting out. He colour-coded common groups of moves - for example, R U R' U' would be green. So many algs are composed of these groups, and seeing them highlighted made it easier to remember algs based on fewer but bigger chunks of information.
 

ep2

Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2019
Messages
6
I've regularly had this problem. It especially happens if there are some sort of similarities between the algorithm that I've newly learned and the one that I've forgotten.

From playing piano, I know similar things can happen when learning similar but different passages of a piece. It's especially common when learning a sonata-form sonata, having memorized the first part of the movement, and then learning a key-changed nearly identical part later in the piece. Suddenly you can't play the first part. Seems like the only solution to this I've found is to then really carefully relearn that first part, paying attention to the differences and also practicing the second part. By paying close attention, you can start to know the distinctions between the two intellectually - not just through muscle memory - and then you can eventually overcome the problem.

I guess I've had success with some algorithms that way. But the thing I don't do that I probably should do is to keep a list of algorithms in my "repertoire", so I can easily go back and relearn one when I suddenly forget it (often after having known it for years and used it thousands of times). I did finally make a list of my OLLs a few years ago, and that has helped me a bit. But I need to do more of it.
Thanks, good to hear it's not just me. This helps a lot. I've been spamming since I wrote the post and pretty sure I have them now. I think I just need to learn them at a slower rate than most and keep regoing through them all.
 

ep2

Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2019
Messages
6
Since I’m 81, I guess I can talk about this. Learning new algs, remembering thrm, and not forgetting old ones in the process is tough for me. But I am doing it, sort of.

For me it takes drill, drill and more drill. Then repeat. I frequently go through my complete alg set, one after the other, and mix up the order of that also.

Folks talk about muscle memory, and that’s a big part of it. But there is, perhaps unfortunately, just a biit of my brain involved also, when I am doing an alg.

My worst problem is, or was, remembering the direction of rotation. Is it an R, or an R’? I found a rather effective solution for this: I’ve prepared flash cards for each alg, with the sequence broken into groups of four or sometime three, and with clockwise moves written in blue, counter-clockwise in red, double moves (R2) in black.

I can glance at those cards during practice and instantly see the direction, and fairly soon the “color pattern” sticks in my mind, and I’m vaguely aware of it as I execute, later on, without th3 cards. During drill, it takes just the briefest glance at the cards to bring the alg back. It’s been a really effective learning crutch for me.

Similar but separate issue: memory traces for blind: I do the edge trace, fine. Then I do the corners, oops: lost the edges, gone! I’m working on this, but not as good as I was two years ago. Lots of talk about short, medium and long term memory, yeah, but it’s tough!
Thanks. Drilling definitely helps. Flash cards sounds like a great idea.

What you say about blind really rings through as I'm making some attempts on that now. I'm actually finding remembering the letter pairs really tough, but I'll get there eventually...
 

One Wheel

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Feb 24, 2016
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Location
Wisconsin
WCA
2016BAIR04
I’m on a bit of a 4BLD kick the last couple of weeks. I don’t expect I want to try learning much new before my competition with either 5BLD or MBLD (stupid organizer didn’t make time for 4BLD or for both big Blind and MBLD. I’ll have to talk to him about that.) but once that’s done what would you suggest working on and what are good resources? I’m intrigued by the idea of 3-style or theoretically 5-style big cube centers, but I’m not sure where to start. U2 centers seem like the most moves per piece solved of anything I’m doing now except maybe OP corners, but there aren’t as many corners so it doesn’t seem like there’s as much to gain.
 

openseas

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Joined
Oct 11, 2015
Messages
404
WCA
2015PARK24
I’m on a bit of a 4BLD kick the last couple of weeks. I don’t expect I want to try learning much new before my competition with either 5BLD or MBLD (stupid organizer didn’t make time for 4BLD or for both big Blind and MBLD. I’ll have to talk to him about that.) but once that’s done what would you suggest working on and what are good resources? I’m intrigued by the idea of 3-style or theoretically 5-style big cube centers, but I’m not sure where to start. U2 centers seem like the most moves per piece solved of anything I’m doing now except maybe OP corners, but there aren’t as many corners so it doesn’t seem like there’s as much to gain.
Big cube center is the best way to learn 3 style - also the easiest.
Once you learn just couple of them, you'll be able to use it for the most of centers. It's not that different from U2 but faster and easier.

Daniel's tutorial is quite good for that.

 

Lid

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Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
900
Location
Sweden
WCA
2008LIDS01
Ha! First PB since 2018 ...
Square-1 average of 12: 14.674 (3 parities) (old PB 15.199)
15.119, (11.333), 13.264, 15.037, 13.608, (20.204[p]), 14.414, 16.187, 16.236[p], 12.038, 17.607[p], 13.233
Average of 12: 14.674
1. 15.119 (-3, -1) / (3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (-5, -2) / (-3, -3) / (-3, 0) / (0, -1) / (-3, 0) / (3, 0) / (-4, -2) / (-2, 0) / (6, 0) / (0, -3)
2. (11.333) (0, 5) / (-2, 4) / (0, -3) / (-3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (-1, -1) / (-5, 0) / (3, 0) / (6, 0) / (0, -2) / (0, -1) / (-4, -2) / (0, -1)
3. 13.264 (4, 0) / (6, 0) / (-3, 0) / (0, -3) / (0, -3) / (0, -4) / (-3, 0) / (-1, -3) / (6, -5) / (5, -4) / (3, 0) / (4, -4) / (-2, 0) /
4. 15.037 (1, -3) / (0, -3) / (2, -4) / (-2, -5) / (0, -3) / (-3, 0) / (5, 0) / (-3, 0) / (-3, -1) / (0, -5) / (5, 0) / (0, -4) / (4, 0)
5. 13.608 (0, -1) / (1, -5) / (-4, -4) / (3, 0) / (-5, -2) / (0, -4) / (-3, 0) / (0, -3) / (-1, 0) / (-4, -2) / (-2, -4) / (6, -2)
6. (20.204[p]) (3, 5) / (-3, 0) / (6, -3) / (-3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (0, -5) / (-3, 0) / (-2, 0) / (0, -1) / (4, -5) / (-3, 0) / (2, 0) / (-4, 0) / (4, 0)
7. 14.414 (0, 2) / (6, -3) / (6, -3) / (4, -5) / (3, 0) / (5, 0) / (6, -3) / (0, -3) / (2, -3) / (1, 0) / (-4, 0) /
8. 16.187 (-2, 0) / (5, 2) / (-3, 0) / (-3, -3) / (-5, -2) / (6, -4) / (0, -3) / (-1, 0) / (-2, -4) / (-1, 0) / (6, -4) / (-4, -5)
9. 16.236[p] (0, 2) / (-3, 3) / (3, 0) / (1, -2) / (-3, -3) / (0, -3) / (2, 0) / (3, 0) / (-5, -4) / (3, -2) / (0, -3) / (6, -2)
10. 12.038 (0, -4) / (6, 0) / (-5, -2) / (2, -1) / (-3, 0) / (3, -3) / (1, 0) / (-3, -3) / (-3, 0) / (0, -2) / (-4, 0) / (-4, -2)
11. 17.607[p] (1, 3) / (0, -3) / (-4, -4) / (6, -3) / (-2, -2) / (-1, 0) / (0, -3) / (6, -1) / (-2, 0) / (4, 0) / (2, 0)
12. 13.233 (0, 2) / (-2, -2) / (3, 0) / (3, 0) / (0, -3) / (-4, -1) / (3, -5) / (-3, 0) / (3, -3) / (0, -3) / (-2, -4) / (6, -2)
I should really start to learn CSP ... but too lazy:)
 
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