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Older cubers discussions

muchacho

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I'm practicing OH again, average is only a bit under 27 seconds, but I've managed to get a PB at Ao5. I'm also getting some Ao12 close to PB, but I can't be consistent, I make some mistakes, get lockups and also forget some algs.

Ao5 PB: 20.54 (previously it was 20.58 from Oct-2018)

Generated By csTimer on 2020-03-31
avg of 5: 20.54

Time List:
1. (15.96) L' F' R2 U L B' R' U D F2 R2 U L2 D' F2 U2 F2 R2 L'
2. 24.71 R2 B2 U B' D R' U' B L D2 B2 U2 B2 L U2 D2 B2 R' B2 L
3. (28.45) B' R B2 F2 D2 L' F2 U2 L R2 U2 F2 L' F' D F' U' R' F U' L'
4. 18.64 R' B' R' F2 R' D2 U2 F2 R2 U2 L U2 R' D2 U R U' L' B' U L2
5. 18.27 F U' B2 U2 R2 U' F2 U B2 U' B2 F2 R' D L D F' D F D'

Hope everyone is ok!
 
Last edited:

SenorJuan

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That's very good, David. I'm also doing more OH practice, but it's becoming apparent that my cube is getting tired and needs replacing. What is your choice for a OH cube these days ?
 

One Wheel

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A Valk3, I haven't bought a cube in 2 years or so. But if someone can suggest a better cube (non magnetic and not expensive) I might try it. Or maybe I'll buy another Valk3.
I use a GTS2M for what little OH I do. I don’t have a Tengyun, but I tried one at a comp in December and I can see why it’s a very highly reviewed cube for OH. If I was very interested in OH that would be very high on my wishlist.
 

SenorJuan

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Thanks David, definitely worth considering.
OW: the Tengyun interested me too, for some time the experimenter in me has been wanting to try magnetising a Zhanchi, as I like the Z , and it's cheap, but then the Tengyun came along ....
Gives me something to think about, thanks guys.
 

CLL Smooth

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Nice Ao5 @muchacho! Maybe I’ll start practicing OH again. Lately it’s been 4x4. I managed to get an Ao100 under 1 minute last week! I was going to update my pb on the spreadsheet that we used to share. I think Logiqx started it, but I can’t seem to find t on my google sheets app anymore. I messaged him about it but haven’t heard back. Anyone else know how I can still access that sheet? It’s really the only place I was keeping track of my pbs
 

mitja

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Hi, everybody
I haven't been around cube competitions for almost two years. My, daughter is deep in puberty now (14) and she lost the wish for cubing, so I had less reason to do it myself.
Now, that I am , like many of you probably, out of intensive work, I have time to get back with some stuff I liked to do. Like cubing. In last 3 weeks I tried to remind myself about BLD again. I was doing advanced M2/OP-Y method. It was quite scary to remember everything again, but after 1-2 days I remembered it all. Then I started to think about learning 3-style.
I must say it was easier now after the long break. I had quite few dilemmas about buffers:
1. I was UBL/DF solver like most M2 solvers
2. I wanted to try UFR/UF buffers, so first 3 days I was trying both options. I had less problems understanding comms using new UFR/UF buffers. Somehow it was easier to do sited rehearsing.
3. I had a dilemma. Do I keep UBL/DF for convenient transition? Because, when I cannot find a comm, I can always use Advanced M2 edges, and use Y-perm corners. Also, parity solution is easy and I feel much at home with it.
4. On the end, I forced myself to rehearse the new UFR/UF buffers, and it finaly got easier. I don't need to look at help sheet to find the comms.
Also, I got used to new parity solution with UF-UR edges switch. And the use of Ja,JB,Y perm for corners parity.
5. I would say that edges with U-layer buffer are really nice. I can use lots of U-layer interchanges.
6. For corners, I don't see any difference in UFR buffer, the difficulty in comms is more or less the same, depends on personal preference.
But, if I switched to UF, the only way was to switch to UFR, otherwise, the parity solving would be to hard.
I can say I needed about 2-3 weeks with 1-2 hours a day to get comfortable finding any of the 800 and something comms without the need to memorise them..
So, I am at the stage, when I can do comfortable sighted solve, and now it is time to start with blind rehearsals.

There is also one very nice aspect of both buffers on U-face. When I do normal F2L solve, I try to do 3-cycle LL and it is very good to find some nice solutions instead of using OLL/PLL.

Anyway, it is nice to do some cubing again
 
Last edited:

openseas

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Oct 11, 2015
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415
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2015PARK24
Hi, everybody
I haven't been around cube competitions for almost two years. My, daughter is deep in puberty now (14) and she lost the wish for cubing, so I had less reason to do it myself.
Now, that I am , like many of you probably, out of intensive work, I have time to get back with some stuff I liked to do. Like cubing. In last 3 weeks I tried to remind myself about BLD again. I was doing advanced M2/OP-Y method. It was quite scary to remember everything again, but after 1-2 days I remembered it all. Then I started to think about learning 3-style.
I must say it was easier now after the long break. I had quite few dilemmas about buffers:
1. I was UBL/DF solver like most M2 solvers
2. I wanted to try UFR/UF buffers, so first 3 days I was trying both options. I had less problems understanding comms using new UFR/UF buffers. Somehow it was easier to do sited rehearsing.
3. I had a dilemma. Do I keep UBL/DF for convenient transition? Because, when I cannot find a comm, I can always use Advanced M2 edges, and use Y-perm corners. Also, parity solution is easy and I feel much at home with it.
4. On the end, I forced myself to rehearse the new UFR/UF buffers, and it finaly got easier. I don't need to look at help sheet to find the comms.
Also, I got used to new parity solution with UF-UR edges switch. And the use of Ja,JB,Y perm for corners parity.
5. I would say that edges with U-layer buffer are really nice. I can use lots of U-layer interchanges.
6. For corners, I don't see any difference in UFR buffer, the difficulty in comms is more or less the same, depends on personal preference.
But, if I switched to UF, the only way was to switch to UFR, otherwise, the parity solving would be to hard.
I can say I needed about 2-3 weeks with 1-2 hours a day to get comfortable finding any of the 800 and something comms without the need to memorise them..
So, I am at the stage, when I can do comfortable sighted solve, and now it is time to start with blind rehearsals.

There is also one very nice aspect of both buffers on U-face. When I do normal F2L solve, I try to do 3-cycle LL and it is very good to find some nice solutions instead of using OLL/PLL.

Anyway, it is nice to do some cubing again
Glad to see you back!

Looks like everybody is switching to UF buffer - I tried last year but kinda gave up, sticked to DF. (Mostly due to my laziness and too many competitions vs not much time to practice)

1. If you're using advanced M2 for now, switching corner to 3 style will give you the most & fast benefit. Whether you stick to UBL or switch to UBF buffer doesn't make too much difference in terms of times but you're right, eventually, UF-UFR parity will be much easier than UF-UBL, but I don't think it's that horrible. I switched from OP to UBL corner comm about year and half ago, it took 3 month to learn, 3 month to be comfortable with. (Didn't have dedicated time slots to practice, it could have been much faster if I had any sort of schedule and followed it)

2. Due to all comp cancellations, I finally had time to dill comms rather than timed 3BLD practice. I'm still using DF buffers, comm speeds vary from 1 ~ high 3 seconds, averaging mid 2s. I didn't start from the scratch since some of my advanced M2 were already quite good as comms. It took 3 weeks to cover all stickers. Among all stickers, comms with L layer as the first target take longer than the rest - too many [L2, E] or {R2, E] comms which are very slow for me. Now I need more timed practice to uses these comms in real BLD attempt - expecting another 3 month to get comfortable with all these comms.

3. With current comm speed of mine, I'm projecting roughly 35s for execution (10.3 alg / solve) including time I'll be wasting to recall comms. With my current memo speed of low 20s, mid 50s for 3BLD is where I'm at. I'm hoping to get more comfortable with comms so that I can push my memo. Goal is to hit global 40s within this year. All things considered, not sure whether I'll try to switch to UF-UFL in near future. Don't think DF-UBL is the road block to achieve the goal at least for now.
 
Last edited:

dudefaceguy

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Feb 17, 2019
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244
Buffer choice is interesting. I'm just learning intuitive 3 style as my first blind method, and I'm using DF/DFR as my buffers. The argument for using UF/UFR doesn't seem to apply as much to me, since I never learned CFOP, so I don't know any top-layer algorithms. I started with Heise, and always used the D layer for my interchanges when preforming commutators.

When I blindsolve, I make up the commutators on the fly, always interchanging with the buffer using the D or M layer. This means that I do my insertions, and more importantly my conjugates, on the top of the cube. Having an easy conjugate is very important for intuitive solving, so that I don't mess up when undoing the conjugate.

Since I never conjugate the buffer and always interchange with it, I'm using a restricted set of commutators that are easier to construct. My conjugates will never move F or D, and will only involve U B L (and R E S for edges) faces. My commutators will principally involve D F R U moves, and M for edges, with D and M used as the interchange layers. To me, this is a good system that makes it easy to construct commutators and conjugates on the fly without errors. I do rotations when the insertions use the F and B faces, but this can happen with any buffer and is more a result of doing intuitive commutators than of buffer choice.

Speed is not much of a goal for me, since I am too old to be fast anyhow. I just really like making up commutators, and I find doing a blind solve very relaxing. I already know there is no chance of me learning speed-optimized "full 3 style" so I'm developing in my own weird way - which is what makes it fun.
 

mitja

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Buffer choice is interesting. I'm just learning intuitive 3 style as my first blind method, and I'm using DF/DFR as my buffers. The argument for using UF/UFR doesn't seem to apply as much to me, since I never learned CFOP, so I don't know any top-layer algorithms. I started with Heise, and always used the D layer for my interchanges when preforming commutators.

When I blindsolve, I make up the commutators on the fly, always interchanging with the buffer using the D or M layer. This means that I do my insertions, and more importantly my conjugates, on the top of the cube. Having an easy conjugate is very important for intuitive solving, so that I don't mess up when undoing the conjugate.

Since I never conjugate the buffer and always interchange with it, I'm using a restricted set of commutators that are easier to construct. My conjugates will never move F or D, and will only involve U B L (and R E S for edges) faces. My commutators will principally involve D F R U moves, and M for edges, with D and M used as the interchange layers. To me, this is a good system that makes it easy to construct commutators and conjugates on the fly without errors. I do rotations when the insertions use the F and B faces, but this can happen with any buffer and is more a result of doing intuitive commutators than of buffer choice.

Speed is not much of a goal for me, since I am too old to be fast anyhow. I just really like making up commutators, and I find doing a blind solve very relaxing. I already know there is no chance of me learning speed-optimized "full 3 style" so I'm developing in my own weird way - which is what makes it fun.
Hi,
i completely understand your point of view. If the speed is not important, then any system that suits you is fine.

I am now into 4 weeks of 3 style learning and it is getting better. I do not use any of the M2/OP comms anymore, because of the buffer switch and am feeling ok with it. I was never fast at blind as I only competed twice with it, so I don’t see any speed difference in buffer switch, but I do feel convenience with UF for edges.

i tried to play with 3 style two years ago, but the DF edges were really difficult for me, so I gave up. now it was easier with using UF buffer.
I also do it intuitively if possible and I like the 4 movers that are achieved by easy setups.( Of course they are not 4 movers any more after the conjugate).

One more reason that persuaded me was simple. I copied the reconstruction of 59/60 multiblind WR solve into exel sheet and I use it very successfully for rehearsals. Graham Siggins uses UFR/UF (and has accidentally the same color sheme like me). I also like the Jack Cai’s exel sheet tutorial, combined with his video.
I like Jack’s option to insert my own letter scheme In the sheet. I do not use Speffz and I replaced x,w,q with some Slovenian letters. So the convenience is important.

I also do blind more for my brains gym, not just fun and speed.
 

dudefaceguy

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I also do blind more for my brains gym, not just fun and speed.
I get this totally - it's the same for me. As an old man (37) it's important for me to keep learning new things.

Jack's spreadsheet is really great - I have taken a look at it myself even though it uses a different buffer. Switching from U/V to C will not be very difficult if I ever choose to do so. If I ever get bored with blindsolving, it may give me a good new challenge.

I will also look at the WR MBLD reconstruction, that is a great idea.
 

mitja

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Dec 22, 2015
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Yes, I believe the reconstruction thread is very usefull. I just take the exel sheet, then I do the letter pair memos and rehearse. Sometimes just sighted solves, other times just blind solves, but without memo.I just read the pack of 1,2,3,4,5 letter pairs ( gradually increase ) and do the blind practice. And then full solves. I concentrate only on few solves. Go back and correct any mistakes. I check Graham's comms and compare with my prefered comms. Of check some Jack's comms. But I do not insist on these speed solvers comms. Some of them like only U,R,D turns, some of them like cube rotations. It really depends on the person. I, for example do not hate some cube rotations. So it saves me some additional setup moves.
 

EngiNerdBrian

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Jun 21, 2018
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.I also do blind more for my brains gym, not just fun and speed.
I get this totally - it's the same for me. As an old man (37) it's important for me to keep learning new things.

Jack's spreadsheet is really great - I have taken a look at it myself even though it uses a different buffer. Switching from U/V to C will not be very difficult if I ever choose to do so. If I ever get bored with blindsolving, it may give me a good new challenge.

I will also look at the WR MBLD reconstruction, that is a great idea.
Do you guys feel that practicing blind helps with your memory in other aspects of life? I understand that's rather arbitrary and subjective correlation. I've just noticed as I've aged (turning 30 this year) my short term memory seems to be much worse than it used to be. I did a bunch of OP blind solving back in college and have considered getting back into it...I've often wondered if it'd be a good way to keep my mind sharp as time goes on. Thoughts?
 

mitja

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Do you guys feel that practicing blind helps with your memory in other aspects of life? I understand that's rather arbitrary and subjective correlation. I've just noticed as I've aged (turning 30 this year) my short term memory seems to be much worse than it used to be. I did a bunch of OP blind solving back in college and have considered getting back into it...I've often wondered if it'd be a good way to keep my mind sharp as time goes on. Thoughts?
I am a choreographer by profesion and I understand it involves some parts of the brain that also cubing does( that is a section of the right hemisphere) So i have a feeling it helps me.
 

dudefaceguy

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Feb 17, 2019
Messages
244
Do you guys feel that practicing blind helps with your memory in other aspects of life? I understand that's rather arbitrary and subjective correlation. I've just noticed as I've aged (turning 30 this year) my short term memory seems to be much worse than it used to be. I did a bunch of OP blind solving back in college and have considered getting back into it...I've often wondered if it'd be a good way to keep my mind sharp as time goes on. Thoughts?
I've only started blind solving recently, so I can't say. You can certainly use the memory techniques to actively remember certain things, but I don't know whether it will improve general memory, i.e. remembering to do something this afternoon if you don't write it down. There is a whole field of memory sports, which is described in the book Moonwalking with Einstein.

I like to do cubing because I am a lawyer, so I feel that it uses a different part of my brain than my work - I can take a bite sized break from writing a legal document and do some solves, then come back with a fresh perspective. It's probably good for the aging brain, but I don't have any science to back that up. I'm absolutely sure that it's fun though.

Yes, I believe the reconstruction thread is very usefull. I just take the exel sheet, then I do the letter pair memos and rehearse. Sometimes just sighted solves, other times just blind solves, but without memo.I just read the pack of 1,2,3,4,5 letter pairs ( gradually increase ) and do the blind practice. And then full solves. I concentrate only on few solves. Go back and correct any mistakes. I check Graham's comms and compare with my prefered comms. Of check some Jack's comms. But I do not insist on these speed solvers comms. Some of them like only U,R,D turns, some of them like cube rotations. It really depends on the person. I, for example do not hate some cube rotations. So it saves me some additional setup moves.
Yes, I do a lot of rotations too. If the insertion involves a B or F move, I usually rotate. I agree that it is very helpful to save setup moves. I will never mess up a rotation because I always know where my buffer is, so it decreases the chance that I will mess up a conjugate reversal. I always do conjugates before rotations, which also helps.

I was surprised to see that some top cubers use rotations in blind solves - it made me feel a lot better haha.
 

openseas

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Oct 11, 2015
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There was a 100 solves/day for 10 days challenge in our senior Facebook group.
I've finished with 3BLD - posting summary of results here.

1) 3x3x3 could have been rather easier but 3BLD is a big challenge in terms of dedicated times and mental readiness. I'm averaging mid 50s - it takes about 100s including scramble (or fix). So, 100 solves ~ 10000 seconds, 2.5 hr / day. I split into 3 sessions, early in the morning, right after lunch, and after dinner. Each session, roughly one hour.

2) What was more important than time management was mental readiness. If you're exhausted, you don't wanna try any single 3BLD attempt let alone 100. Tried to go to bed not too late and had quick nap especially on weekends.

3) This timing was quite good for me - I just finished edge comms (sometime in March) - and I needed massive practice on these newly learned algs. So, I forced myself to use these new algs instead of any advanced M2 style comm.

4) I've been pushing memo to get sub-20 memo but was not aggressive. Tried to remember pushing my memo this time.


Below shows summary of 10 days / 1000 solves.
- Time distribution: Majority of times were low 50s followed by high 50s and high 40s.
- Over times show improvement in terms of median and distribution.
- Pushing memo seems to be getting more stable around 20s
- Execution shows slow improvement - I can feel confidence of executions for many edge comms (not all!)

1587589851102.png


Below charts show time distribution comparison between 1st half vs 2nd half of this 1000 challenge.
Compared to the first half, I've got many 40s, skewing the whole distribution to left.




1587590191569.png

Below is a distribution plot divided into 3 time frames (just divided by 3 of total success out of 1000 attempts)
Improvement between the first group toward the 2nd group looks more in all area across the board while the 2nd to 3rd shift was more from fast solves (40s, mainly)




1587590330268.png



Below is all historical csTimer results starting from 2018 August.
(Each box represents each month distribution)
Started from high 90s, now down to low 50s in the span of 1.5 year. First drop was mostly from getting used to "Advanced M2" when I started learning 3 style corners. It took almost 6 months - then, finally was getting comfortable which brought the 2nd drop. But after that, it was quite stable or very slow improvement. Funny thing is, over this period, memo was almost same around mid 20s while execution showed slight improvement. I tried to re-learn 3 style edge comms but made very small progress. I was finally able to finish learning.
(BTW, each month represents roughly 200 ~ 1000 solves, mostly somewhere in the middle).


1587590896092.png
 

Rainger

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Joined
Apr 4, 2020
Messages
72
What
Hi Guys,

My name is Marcel, 42 years old. I have learned to solve the cube at age 11 - 12 or so. I had not touched a cube a maybe 15 - 20 years. A few weeks ago I solved a cube and found it very nice to see that I still knew how to do that. When I looked at youtube I found amazing stuff from you speedsolvers. I thought it was the most amazing thing I have ever seen. I solved the cube in a layer by layer which could take up to 10 minutes.

So when I decided that I want to be much faster. I ordered a few cubes. The Dayan Zhianchi and Guhong. I looked at these video's:



And in one week I went from solving times of 10 minutes to below 2 minutes. In fact I have a video of a 1.30 solve:


My goal is to get below one minute. Right now I have not focussed on OLL and PLL. I just need to get the 2FL much quicker. I recon in a few weeks times must be a lot better.

Cheers!
[/QUO
LOL, yes I know. And still I am proud of it.



Yes, I hope to get around it today..

Go to 1:15 in this video and you will see I allready know some OLL and PLL argortims:

What do you consider older? I’m 25, not sure if I would be considered older. That’s awesome you remembered how to solve it! A week break and I usually slow down significantly! You will be under a min in no time. F2L was always my where I struggled for time. A few days and you be in the 50 second mark.
 
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