Learned new method, I'm slower

[QuinnHyatt]

Hey guys,

So I just recently learned 2 look OLL, and 2 look PLL.

Well, I still don't know the following by heart:
OLL - Blinker and Headlights
PLL - E-Perm and Z-Perm

But I can get through the majority of solved without running into anything I don't know, and using 4 look last layer ro solve the cube.

Here's the problem: With beginner's method last layer, I averaged around 40 seconds. Now, I'm averaging about 44-45 seconds.

Using F2L and 2 look OLL/PLL, how fast should I be aiming for?
Will I see any substantial progress with 2 look each, or are regular sub-30 times really only for 1 look OLL and 1 look PLL?

I realize I have to durastically boost my F2L (Sitting at about 20 seconds), but I'm wondering if a 15-20 last layer is ridiculously slow.

And advice would be great and appreciated, thank you.


--Quinn Hyatt

P.S. I plan on moving to 1 look OLL/PLL, but at a more gradual rate.

 

[kcl]

Hey guys,

So I just recently learned 2 look OLL, and 2 look PLL.

Well, I still don't know the following by heart:
OLL - Blinker and Headlights
PLL - E-Perm and Z-Perm

But I can get through the majority of solved without running into anything I don't know, and using 4 look last layer ro solve the cube.

Here's the problem: With beginner's method last layer, I averaged around 40 seconds. Now, I'm averaging about 44-45 seconds.

Using F2L and 2 look OLL/PLL, how fast should I be aiming for?
Will I see any substantial progress with 2 look each, or are regular sub-30 times really only for 1 look OLL and 1 look PLL?

I realize I have to durastically boost my F2L (Sitting at about 20 seconds), but I'm wondering if a 15-20 last layer is ridiculously slow.

And advice would be great and appreciated, thank you.


--Quinn Hyatt

P.S. I plan on moving to 1 look OLL/PLL, but at a more gradual rate.

Honestly, you can sub 15 with 4LLL. That being said, it's difficult until you're actually faster than sub 15. So, I would tell you to learn full PLL around sub 30. After that OLL can wait a while. I didn't learn mine until I averaged like 13 haha. Good luck!

 

[patrickcuber]

when I learned a new method I got slower too. You just need to practice the method a lot. Practice the algs more.

 

[TDM]

Practise more, and you'll eventually improve. For example, I'm more efficient with ZZ, but I'm slower with it, because I haven't practised with it enough and my lookahead is poor. You're less familiar with the 4-look LL algs and so are slower with them. Stay with them and you'll be faster soon. You should be looking at 1-look PLL for sub-30, but definitely not 1-look OLL. If you have time, and have learned 2-look OLL and 1-look PLL, learn some of the easier OLL case. My opinion (although some disagree) is that you should only really learn full OLL after sub-20ish. I'm saying this speed because by then you're probably decided on which method you're using. You shouldn't learn full OLL unless you really want to stay using CFOP; it isn't used in any other method that I know of.

tl;dr finish 2-look OLL and 2-look PLL, and practisepractisepractise. As you get nearer to sub-30, learn PLL, and OLL if you're fast with it and don't want to ever change methods.

 

[GLgamer10]

When I started my new method, I jumped up back up to a minute when I started CFOP. With a beginner's method I averaged around 50 seconds. After about a month of practicing CFOP my times improved drastically. I started getting times of 40 to 45 seconds. I learned full PLL around 35 second mark and I'm stuck at the 30 second mark. My F2L needs a lot of improvement with it being complete in around 15 seconds. Just keep practicing.

 

[QuinnHyatt]

Thanks all, I'll work on sub-30 for the time being. This is a great help, believe it or not, because now I have something to go off of and an order to do things in. I REALLY appreciate this.

 

[uberCuber]

You shouldn't learn full OLL unless you really want to stay using CFOP; it isn't used in any other method that I know of.

Knowing most or all of OLL and then switching methods won't hurt you; it's not like you're going to run out of space in your memory. If you want to learn it, go ahead and learn it and make use of it while you're using CFOP.

 

[aboeglin]

When I started my new method, I jumped up back up to a minute when I started CFOP. With a beginner's method I averaged around 50 seconds. After about a month of practicing CFOP my times improved drastically. I started getting times of 40 to 45 seconds. I learned full PLL around 35 second mark and I'm stuck at the 30 second mark. My F2L needs a lot of improvement with it being complete in around 15 seconds. Just keep practicing.

Exactly where I am at the moment. Also, you might want to look at this : http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?39899-A-Few-Tricks-to-Help-You-Avoid-Cube-Rotations if you want to improve your F2L. I usually always inserted pieces with RU'R' and its variants before. I now try to find new ways of inserting ( that don't do too many things to keep good options when I'll get into look ahead ). My times are at around 32sec for a week now, but I do half the rotations I was doing before ( when timing ). I can easily do slow solves without rotations, which in my opinion helps a lot. Also, I try to practice every F2L case one by one and repeat it ( I start from a solved cube, reverse the case, solve it, reverse it again, solve it again and so on ). And finally, I do mostly slow solves at the moment, really trying to get rid of my old bad habits to rotate the cube every time it was handy. My slow F2L doesn't come from tps that I could gain with R,U but rather from the cube that I rotate all the time and make me loose track of what's happening. I suppose after sub25 you should definitely work on efficiency for your F2L, which I already do now to avoid getting deeper into my bad habits.

To the OP, I wouldn't worry too much about your LL for the moment. It'll definitely go down with time, LL is really only coming down to perform algs as fast as possible after recognizing a case as fast as possible. F2L on the other side is much harder to improve, so I'd keep all my focus on F2L, and keep doing full solves for a while to improve both, in a few days you'll probably drop by a few seconds depending on how much you practice.

 

[Furry]

As people said above, it's human nature that you'll become slower at something you start at. But your choice was right You will gradually become faster.
When you get to like sub-20 and stuff like that, you'll be thinking "How was I ever that slow? It's like impossible to be that slow unless you try" Lol. No offense or anything.
Just keep practicing. Most hated/helpful advice ever given.

 

[TDM]

Knowing most or all of OLL and then switching methods won't hurt you; it's not like you're going to run out of space in your memory. If you want to learn it, go ahead and learn it and make use of it while you're using CFOP.

Yeah, I knew some people would disagree with me on this. I know what you mean, and I do agree with you, but I'd not like to learn another 50 algs and then decide to not use them again... it would be so much time wasted. The problem isn't to do with the solving at all

 

[uberCuber]

Yeah, I knew some people would disagree with me on this. I know what you mean, and I do agree with you, but I'd not like to learn another 50 algs and then decide to not use them again... it would be so much time wasted. The problem isn't to do with the solving at all

Not completely wasted; as you learn more algs you get better at learning algs and will be able to learn even more algs with less effort in the future. I do understand your feeling, though.

 

[sneaklyfox]

Your LL is slow compared to your F2L. Just drill your algs over and over again so they are fast. Watch some videos about fingertricks... learning the alg properly with the right fingertricks the first time helps so you don't need to relearn it later.

 

[rj]

Perfectly normal. Happens to everyone. no worries. See you thursday!

 

[patrickcuber]

Perfectly normal. Happens to everyone. no worries. See you thursday!

see you thursday?

 

[GLgamer10]

Exactly where I am at the moment. Also, you might want to look at this : http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?39899-A-Few-Tricks-to-Help-You-Avoid-Cube-Rotations if you want to improve your F2L. I usually always inserted pieces with RU'R' and its variants before. I now try to find new ways of inserting ( that don't do too many things to keep good options when I'll get into look ahead ). My times are at around 32sec for a week now, but I do half the rotations I was doing before ( when timing ). I can easily do slow solves without rotations, which in my opinion helps a lot. Also, I try to practice every F2L case one by one and repeat it ( I start from a solved cube, reverse the case, solve it, reverse it again, solve it again and so on ). And finally, I do mostly slow solves at the moment, really trying to get rid of my old bad habits to rotate the cube every time it was handy. My slow F2L doesn't come from tps that I could gain with R,U but rather from the cube that I rotate all the time and make me loose track of what's happening. I suppose after sub25 you should definitely work on efficiency for your F2L, which I already do now to avoid getting deeper into my bad habits.

My look-ahead is just down right awful. I keep falling into the habit of turning fast and it is just making it more difficult for me to break the barrier. It also doesn't help that I'm still using a Rubik's brand. It is all I have at the moment though. I ordered a Zhanchi early December, but the shipping is ridiculous. anyway, I need to start slowing down and making better habits. I tried using a metronome to keep the constant beat with my F2L and once I completed it, just speed back up again for LL. I would post a video to get some help on exactly what I could improve on, but I have no means of placing my phone to record at a good angle.
To the OP, I wouldn't worry too much about your LL for the moment. It'll definitely go down with time, LL is really only coming down to perform algs as fast as possible after recognizing a case as fast as possible. F2L on the other side is much harder to improve, so I'd keep all my focus on F2L, and keep doing full solves for a while to improve both, in a few days you'll probably drop by a few seconds depending on how much you practice.

 

[kcl]

see you thursday?

I'll go out on a limb and guess that it means he will be seeing him on Thursday.

 

[aboeglin]

My look-ahead is just down right awful. I keep falling into the habit of turning fast and it is just making it more difficult for me to break the barrier. It also doesn't help that I'm still using a Rubik's brand. It is all I have at the moment though. I ordered a Zhanchi early December, but the shipping is ridiculous. anyway, I need to start slowing down and making better habits. I tried using a metronome to keep the constant beat with my F2L and once I completed it, just speed back up again for LL. I would post a video to get some help on exactly what I could improve on, but I have no means of placing my phone to record at a good angle.

Do you do a lot of cube rotations during F2L ? I tried to work on lookahead about a week ago for a day. I realized I was rotating the cube so much that it was actually hard to keep track of piece and solved slots all together. That's how I came to read about sledgehammer and different pair inserts. Now when timing myself I don't even care about the timer anymore, I rather focus on having correct moves which are slower since I don't have them all in muscle memory yet, but when they'll be there I'll finally focus on look ahead. And when I see a case that'll take a lot of moves, usually I rush it and slow down for insert moves.

 

[Antonie faz fan]

how the hell do you do cp with only E perm? the chanse that you can do that is 1/3

 

[TDM]

how the hell do you do cp with only E perm? the chanse that you can do that is 1/3

He said the only CPLL he doesn't yet know is the E perm. Read his post again.

Not completely wasted; as you learn more algs you get better at learning algs and will be able to learn even more algs with less effort in the future. I do understand your feeling, though.

True.

 

[JakeTheCuber]

I found it really hard to switch frm beginner to the methods I use now. Its like how you were slow at beginner, but got fast as you progressed. Keep practicing and learn the method better. You'll get faster as you go.