mark49152
Premium Member
Maybe learn full PLL?
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How to be sub 20
- Thread starter *LukeMayn*
- Start date
ChickenWrap
Veteran
Although CFOP isnt my main method, I average 18 with 4 look LL...just practice F2L! Doing solve after solve is how I improved....
mark49152
Premium Member
Yeah and others are twice as fast as you with one hand. So don't bother using your second hand, you can get sub-15 without it.
ChickenWrap
Veteran
Haha. All I am saying is that full PLL is not really a good/necessary thing to suggest.
Not to mention my Ao10,000 is still faster than your a05
With my non-main method, no less.
mark49152
Premium Member
Your advice sucks. Is there a good reason not to learn it? Obviously it will be more difficult and take longer to get sub-15 without PLL (and OLL for that matter).
Last edited:
Bh13
Veteran
I was sub 20 before I learned full PLL and I didn't learn full OLL until I was sub 15. Really all that's needed to be sub 20 is fairly decent lookahead and knowledge of the cube.
mark49152
Premium Member
...none of which invalidates what I said. Just because something's not essential doesn't mean it's not worthwhile.
ChickenWrap
Veteran
I am saying that anyone with any amount of knowledge about CFOP would know that learning full PLL would not bring him from a 30 second average to sub-20. Sure, it will help 2 seconds or so, but that still leaves 8.
However, if he just practices and gets his F2L fast, he can easily drop below a sub-20 average. I don't even know full PLL and I have sub-15 averages that prove you don't need it to be "fast".
mafergut
Legend
I have been a bit stuck for some months. In July I had a PB Ao5 of 21.38 and I cannot beat that (I have beaten it just 3 times since then and my current PB is 20.84, from a month ago). Also my non-lucky PB single has not improved much since July-August, from 17.40 to 16.82 this week. Also my Ao50 & 100 have improved only around 1 or 1.5 sec in this period to low 24s and high 24s-low 25s respectively. In a typical Ao100 I currently get 50 to 60 sub-25 solves and between 4 and 6 sub-20 solves.
I practice a lot, like 100 solves 5 days a week, some days even 150-200. I try to plan the full cross, concentrate in F2L lookahead, ... all the good advice you give in this forum but still progress is very slow lately if at all (there are weeks when it looks like I'm going back).
Questions: Is progress so slow at this level and I just have to be patient? Is my age already a problem (I'm 44)? I say this because I spoil solves many times because of sloppy / non-accurate turning and also I cannot even do the A-perms in less than 1.9sec at best (worst PLLs, like Z, R, V,... in like 4-5sec). I have been cubing for a year and I see others in the forum that started more or less at the same time and are already getting sub-18 Ao12, sub-12 singles and that stuff. Any specific advice for me (apart from record a video and put it in solve critique thread, which I plan on doing)? Like, e.g.: solve less and drill OLLs/PLLs more, or things like that.
Thanks!!!
I practice a lot, like 100 solves 5 days a week, some days even 150-200. I try to plan the full cross, concentrate in F2L lookahead, ... all the good advice you give in this forum but still progress is very slow lately if at all (there are weeks when it looks like I'm going back).
Questions: Is progress so slow at this level and I just have to be patient? Is my age already a problem (I'm 44)? I say this because I spoil solves many times because of sloppy / non-accurate turning and also I cannot even do the A-perms in less than 1.9sec at best (worst PLLs, like Z, R, V,... in like 4-5sec). I have been cubing for a year and I see others in the forum that started more or less at the same time and are already getting sub-18 Ao12, sub-12 singles and that stuff. Any specific advice for me (apart from record a video and put it in solve critique thread, which I plan on doing)? Like, e.g.: solve less and drill OLLs/PLLs more, or things like that.
Thanks!!!
It sounds like you're doing everything right to me... The biggest thing for me to get sub 20 was just solving alot.... I'm positive if you keep doing what you're doing right now you'll get to where you wanna be. Some other things that might help you out however is looking at how you solve your f2l cases check on the wiki to make sure the trickier cases are move optimal. As for the algs It probably wouldn't hurt going over finger tricks on your more difficult ones or maybe changing an alg all together if it's really bad. And finally look ahead is something that comes over a very gradual period of time and will slowly improve with every solve you do... So basically you're on the right track just maintain your consistent practising habits and you'll be sub 20 suner than you think
Do you know full OLL and PLL? Probably the most important thing that got me sub 20 was to never keep learning new things! I was stuck at 21 for a LONG time. And I mean a long time. Even though I was doing hundreds of solves a day, in hindsight I realize I should have continued learning new tricks, new OLL's and PLL's for solving from different angles, and in general, just picking up new ways of solving f2l pairs. Once I started doing that, sub 20 happened almost without my knowing it.
So don't make the mistake I made of getting comfortable with what you already know. Pick up new algs or tricks constantly. Not a week goes by that I don't force myself to learn at least 6 new tricks, or 6 improvements over tricks I already know. Continuous learning really does help!
mark49152
Premium Member
I'm also in my 40s and at about the same average as you, and I do believe age makes a difference. I know that from other activities, like piano, where it now takes many hours of practice to get to a level of proficiency with a piece that would have taken just 3-4 plays in my teens. I therefore have modest expectations of my speedcubing potential. However, it's only for fun, so who cares.
My advice would be to mix up your practice and try different approaches. Don't just do 100s of timed solves if it's not working for you. Things that have helped me improve include blind practice of cross and F2L pairs, algorithm drills like PLL attacks to work TPS, and slow untimed solves focusing on lookahead and early case recognition. I generally spend more time doing dedicated substep practice. I'll do a specific kind of substep training for a few days, then switch to doing timed full solves for a few days to combine in my substep improvements. Works for me, and I find it more interesting to vary my practice, but everyone's different.
My advice would be to mix up your practice and try different approaches. Don't just do 100s of timed solves if it's not working for you. Things that have helped me improve include blind practice of cross and F2L pairs, algorithm drills like PLL attacks to work TPS, and slow untimed solves focusing on lookahead and early case recognition. I generally spend more time doing dedicated substep practice. I'll do a specific kind of substep training for a few days, then switch to doing timed full solves for a few days to combine in my substep improvements. Works for me, and I find it more interesting to vary my practice, but everyone's different.
mafergut
Legend
Thanks a lot for your encouraging words. I will definitely continue practicing.
I know full PLL and (almost) full OLL. There are just 2 OLL cases I do with a combination of two other OLLs instead of a dedicated OLL, I will have to learn those one day or another but it is gonna improve but just 3 or 4 moves in just 2 out of 57 cases so, not a lot of margin for improvement there).
I also try incorporating mirror OLLs when, e.g. I get a T OLL case that is rotated, instead of doing a U2 but I'm still slower with my left that U2+OLL with my right. I DO have some bad PLLs that I should change but I guess it's not they are bad algs but that I'm slow. I tried to change the Zs and I more or less got the same times with the new alg (around 4.5 sec avg) than with the old alg, even though the guy in the video could do the new alg in like 1.1 or so. That's why I thought it is just me being too old or not too skilled (or both).
Yeah, it is mainly for fun. That's why I do it also and I will keep doing it. But seeing improvement is also motivating. Yeah, I also do some of that (slow untimed solves to focus on lookahead and how to efficiently insert pairs, etc.). What I'm not doing and I think I should do is work on OLL/PLL attacks.
Thank you so much to all that replied for your good advice and stay tuned for my video on solve critique... if I ever get to do it (video editing is a nightmare for me).
thomasandrew
Member
Do you have any good algs for the ll
mafergut
Legend
I am still stuck so I decided to record an Ao5 and posted it on The Solve Critique thread here. Nobody has replied yet so if any of you would be so kind. I would be glad to hear your comments. Meanwhile I'm starting with the blind F2L practice and also trying to do PLL attacks and trying some PLLs in different orientations (like lefty T-perm) and researching new ways to do some F2L cases, etc. As one of you said, always trying to learn something new.
Thanks in advance!
mafergut
Legend
Do you mean stop cubing for a while? Like how long? One week? I wouldn't have thought that stopping practice instead of practising more would help me improve. Would changing puzzle help, like, let's say, start learning Ortega for 2x2? I'd miss cubing, seriously.
mafergut
Legend
Thanks. I will give it a try. What do I have to lose? But I'll have to buy a skewb, hehehe. I have a SS pyraminx but I find it really boring.
I responded to your vid in the solve critique thread.
