Cuber's IQ

qqwref said:
I think that the right kind of education/training can affect your score on an IQ test, yes. (I don't think "your score on an IQ test" and "your intelligence" are the same thing, though.)
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But that doesn't answer my question. Do you think that actual intelligence (as opposed to measured intelligence) is affected by education and training.
 
Vishal said:
Is anyone here apart of or at least heard of Mensa.
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I'm sure many people have heard of it but probably no one cares. I just checked out the NZ Mensa website, did their quick online test and got 27 out of 33 and would "have a good chance of successfully completing the Mensa entry test." One of the answers I got wrong was checking the wrong box, whoops. One I simply had no idea where it was going. The other 4 I could justify my answers in person but unfortunately I am unable to argue with, and beat, a computer. This would be very easy with a narrow minded moron from Mensa.

High IQ societies are all silly bums with no future therefore they affiliate themselves to other people like themselves with no hope of doing anything with their lives but happening to have reasonable IQs. Anyone with a really good IQ knows that IQs are silly.
 
Throughout these few years I have been taking some online IQ tests and I've got a pretty consistent score of 124. I probably did around 10-12. Intelligence may have some influence on how well we can cube, but I think fun, competitive spirit and determination are more important.

The decent cubers I have met in school are all incidentally top 13 in class (including myself :P), and we're from the 'best' class, i.e. our scores are quantitatively superior to that of other classes. But I'd like to stress that those who did very well in class are those who paid attention in class, did their homework and studied before exam. Two of my other cuber friends were like that. They studied like ****. In contrast, I have never studied (yeah you heard me), so I'm a little behind them. If they had never willed themselves to study, our positions would have been very close (one of the friends I mentioned 'lost' his position to me a few times and he was like "I study so much and yet you got a better position than me".)

So if a cuber is smart but do not pour out the effort, when compared to a "baka" cuber who works like hell, I think the result would be similar to the studying scenario.

One of the effects intelligence has on cubers (or potential cubers) is most likely how fast they learn about the cube. I learned how to solve the cube in a few hours, while my other friends took days, and many who tried simply gave up because they couldn't understand it. So I believe that for average joes, it's just a matter of time before they "get it", as long as they pour out the effort and concentration to do so.

In other words, your intelligence is of no consequence to your cubing hobby (or career ;)).
 
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Vishal said:
I see what you guys mean but 140 150 is pretty good Isaac neuron was 180 and I am around 145. IQ means how fast you learn and memorize things I agree that you can teach an idiot how to cube but an someone average is like 107 will need extra time to memorize algs and will forget them easily and they would have some problems Whith learning full fridricd or how ever you spell it or full eg or polish v. And IQ does not mean your smart it just means you have the ability to be smart and you people Whith 140 try out for Mensa its an organization for people in the top 2 percent of IQ you take a test and there are benifits like good for getting into university. I'm going to try when I'm 14 in a few months
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Your about 145? You have never made a normal iq test. Have you read enough about IQ tests? The average IQ is 100, and only 2% has better IQ than 130 (!!!), and only 1% of people has better than 134! They say that it's amost impossible to measure above 134, because the IQ tests are not delicate enough to show it. I doubt that you have a 145 IQ, but think what you want...
PS: We don't know Neuton's IQ. How do you know it was 180?
And a funfact: The deffinition of IQ: IQ is the number that IQ tests measure.
 
Lol, if that kid is the smartest kid in the UK then Birgit must be the smartest kid in Europe.
I'm pretty sure she would have aced that test at that age.
But who cares???

WHY would you want to test your kids IQ at that young age?
Some sort of self-gratification for the parents perhaps?
Put a burdon on the kids shoulders from early on?

Regarding IQ tests: I am pretty sure you can train for these tests to a certain degree. It will familiarise you with the type of tests so you will feel a bit more comfortable. This can gain you a few points but no more than that.

Chris,
I do not think that using memory techniques can be considered cheating. It is a skill you required by studying / practice and now has become part of your "mental capabilities". If you would be "less smart" (or watever you want to call it) you would not have succeeded in getting this capability develloped.

Regarding testing:
I have done multiple tests and my IQ is undefined
 
Stefan said:
I do have a poster but I did not get that as a gift, I bought it myself.
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That's probably the post of the year.

RE: "Why do parents have their kids tested?" - There has been a documentary series running every few years in the UK called 'Child Genius'. You have every sort of situation on this programme, parents who have been forcing their kids to study day and night for years so that they can pass qualifications aged 7 that are meant for 18 year olds, kids with incredible talent for music or art that is beyond their years, which is encouraged but not enforced and then there are parents that obviously do not care what their child's IQ is, but want to know whether they are providing appropriate schooling/activities for the child. While many parents want to scream about how good their kid's IQ is, I think a lot simply want to know if they are providing appropriate stimulation and not stunting their development. I mean, if you discovered that your kid could read a year earlier than the average, surely you would want to give them books to encourage this? I don't really think there is anything wrong with that sort of behaviour. Most parents would want their child to achieve their full potential and if discovering your kid has an above average IQ helps with this, why not? I'm not saying this is the be all and end all to a child's development and nor am I saying that to be intelligent you must score phenomenally on an IQ test, but it at least suggests some kind of ability. Going back to the documentary, there was a 5 year old child who at first seemed like he was misbehaving in class, but then they realised he was simply bored because he wasn't learning anything. After IQ testing him, they realised that perhaps the school wasn't offering him anything that beneficial and was holding him back. By sending him to a different school his parents could well have changed things for him and avoided further years of misbehaving and gaining nothing from school. To me, that seems like a positive?
 
Cubenovice said:
WHY would you want to test your kids IQ at that young age?
Some sort of self-gratification for the parents perhaps?
Put a burdon on the kids shoulders from early on?
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Maybe because their kid is doing and/or saying things that other kids of her age couldn't do/don't know, and I mean hard stuff (for her age group, of course).
Her parents wanted to know what's going on with their child, being capable of doing such hard things, so they let her do an IQ-test. It's not that odd.
 
Cubenovice said:
Regarding testing:
I have done multiple tests and my IQ is undefined
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Your IQ is a 45 degree line to the horizontal? ;) :3

Chris,
I do not think that using memory techniques can be considered cheating. It is a skill you required by studying / practice and now has become part of your "mental capabilities". If you would be "less smart" (or watever you want to call it) you would not have succeeded in getting this capability develloped.
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Yes, I have considered this position, but I still think that what I did in that experiment did not test my short term memory. I will give you an example. Using my auditory memory method I am focusing on what I have read called the "10 second auditory loop" that is an automatic recording in a sense that your brain does of the last 10 seconds of audio you just heard. You do not have to concentrate to do this, it is wired into your brain and completely automatic.

Now, I have trained my technique such that a 1 syllable word encodes two pieces of information. So whatever I can hear myself say in 10 seconds actually encodes double the information of just the words themselves. However, my true short term memory capability is probably just as average as anyone else's. I don't think that I have a "15 second" auditory loop, or anything longer than what they consider average. So, in my mind, I should test at about average on a standardized psychology memory experiment. But, since I went into the exam with the specific intent to use my memorization techniques such as to achieve a high "score" then I feel in hindsight that I skewed the results of their test, and purposefully.

If I were to do a memory test again, I would be conflicted about whether or not I should use my memorization techniques to be honest. The test is looking for the capability of my brain, which to me means at a sort of "rest" capability. I would not imagine that the test would be looking for how well I have trained a particular memorization technique, but rather how well my brain "functions" on it's own power so to speak.

What are others' opinions? If ever given a memory test again, should I or should I not use trained memorization techniques? I still think that the use of such skews the results of the test, as I am not actually doing what the test is asking me to do.

--edit--
One last example is when I play the game Simon. This is the game where you press the four colored lights in the order they present it to you. If I do not use any memorization techniques I can make it through perhaps 10-12 lights before I make a mistake. I once played Simon using an online applet and my journey memorization techniques. Although I don't remember my exact score, I'm pretty sure I broke 75 lights correct before I finally made a mistake.

This is a perfect example of what I am talking about. Without memorization techniques I score about average, 10-12. With memorization techniques I can break 75, which may qualify me as "Soooooper genius," when in fact my "memory" is only average.

--edit--
accuracy edit made
 
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cmhardw said:
One last example is when I play the game Simon. This is the game where you press the four colored lights in the order they present it to you. If I do not use any memorization techniques I can make it through perhaps 10-12 lights before I make a mistake. I once played Simon using an online applet, and using my journey memorization method, and was able to get over 100 lights correct after approximately an hour, and before I made a mistake.
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wtf 100

How do you use journey to memorize that?
 
aronpm said:
wtf 100

How do you use journey to memorize that?
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I made an edit to my last post. I don't think it was quite 100, as I only remember playing the game for about an hour or two before I made my first mistake. Since each time through it shows you 1 light per second, and repeats the whole sequence to you every iteration, then a successful game out to \( n \) lights would have taken me minimum \( n(n+1) \) seconds to display each light sequence as well as enter it in myself afterward for every iteration. For 100 lights this would be 2.8 hours. 75 lights gives me 1.6 hours, which is closer to accurate. In fact, it was probably fewer than 75 lights if you factor in any recall delays.

Seeing as how people will probably tear me apart for presenting such an unreliable statistic I am interested to try this again. I would actually use a refinement to the method I used the first time. Aron, to answer your question, I used my journey locations but I did not place images there I placed chunks of words. I translated each light into one of four letters, U, D, L, R for Up, Down, Left, Right. I would take strings of letters and make them into words.

RLR was "Roller"
RLLR was "Roll Lar"

Stuff like that. I would chunk small phrases or groups of words into a location before I moved on. Basically whenever I felt my short term memory beginning to get "full" I would "save" it to that journey location and then move onto the next one. In hindsight now I would just use images, and come up with a special list that encodes perhaps 4 letters per image. This way I could use one journey with 26 locations, and encode 3 images per location. That would be a potential to get 312 lights correct as long as I didn't make a mistake. Doing so, though, would take a minimum of about 27 hours just to display all the lights and enter in my answers each time lol. If that game would let me pause for bathroom breaks and sleep breaks, then perhaps this could be possible haha.
 
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Online IQ tests are lol

I just took an online IQ test, purposely answered every single question wrong (there were 40 questions), and it still didn't give me a mentally retarded score; it said my IQ was 77

EDIT: and it was untimed
 
Cubenovice said:
I do not think that using memory techniques can be considered cheating. It is a skill you required by studying / practice and now has become part of your "mental capabilities". If you would be "less smart" (or watever you want to call it) you would not have succeeded in getting this capability develloped.
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Learning memory techniques does NOT require or signify very high intelligence. What it does require is patience, practice, and some interest in memory sports. IQ tests are supposed to measure *natural* intelligence, how smart you are as a person, rather than how much knowledge or problem solving ability you have learned. While I won't say memory techniques are cheating, they certainly DO go against the spirit of the test.

EDIT: While you can use memory techniques for a lot of testing situations, I think that's often because they don't expect that people will, and thus they don't design the test to prevent that. For instance they might have you memorize letters or digits because it is easier for the testers, without realizing that such things would provide a huge advantage to people who know methods for those things.

On the other hand, Simon is just a game and not a psychological test, so the only goal is "get a high score", so it is fair to use any memory techniques you know short of writing stuff down :)

Brian Kremer said:
Because I am very interested in this topic. Would you say that a person's intelligence changes over time, or do you think that it stays the same?
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The way I think of it, intelligence is a type of natural talent and should be a constant over time... not counting effects such as brain changes during childhood, progressive senility in old age, or brain trauma.
 
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CharlieCooper said:
I think a lot simply want to know if they are providing appropriate stimulation and not stunting their development. I mean, if you discovered that your kid could read a year earlier than the average, surely you would want to give them books to encourage this? I don't really think there is anything wrong with that sort of behaviour.
....
After IQ testing him, they realised that perhaps the school wasn't offering him anything that beneficial and was holding him back. By sending him to a different school his parents could well have changed things for him and avoided further years of misbehaving and gaining nothing from school. To me, that seems like a positive?
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Yeah, I have seen similar shows but still wonder why you would need an actual IQ test to establish the kids abilities.
Any normal parent should be expected to try to encourage / stimulate their kids development as much as possible. Wether they seem to be "smart" or not.
Personally, I do not need an IQ test to tell me my 5 y/o daughter is bright, I just know by spending time with her.
Granted, it is not always easy to keep her busy (she actually quit cubing last week) but what good would it do us to be able to quantify her "intelligence"?

cmhardw said:
Your IQ is a 45 degree line to the horizontal? ;) :3

Yes, I have considered this position, but I still think that what I did in that experiment did not test my short term memory.
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Hi Chris,
you off all people should know that (not only in math) things can be undefined for various reasons :D

Thanks for the extra examples, I understand your reasoning now.
I guess you could say that experiment did not test your short term memory but rather your memorisation skills.

I cannot help but thinking that there MUST be some studies out there on "natural memory" vs "memorisation skills" and the benefits from the latter.
 
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