Colour Neutral Deliberation

[Muesli]

I completely agree, Kir and I will keep this civil, but we have very different views on this and I think we should discuss this in a forum with Color Neutral Deliberation as its title. I, for one, would like to hear his reasoning behind adamantly opposing me.

The way I read it, he opposes your assertions that;
A: Your method is original,
B: It's easy,
C: It can be done in 2 weeks, or whatever timescale takes your fancy.

I don't like to put words in Kir's mouth but I think all of these oppositions are important and valid. I've no problem with people learning to be CN but you blow it up to be much more beneficial than it actually is.

 

[Kirjava]

This type of practicing Color neutrality won't be conducive to quick switching.

Where is the evidence that the alternative is?

 

[masterofthebass]

It takes at least a month to do this properly.

This whole thing boils down to you not providing a single shred of evidence for why your "method" works. You posted a way to attempt to become CN, and keep insisting that your opinions are fact without backing any of it up. There is no way for anyone to actually prove that a type of practice will help you become CN quicker, because it is not something that can be proven. Stop arguing for your method as an end-all solution without really proving why it is good.

 

[asportking]

Just saying, I'm pretty sure this thread is supposed to be about color neutrality itself, not about some person's "method" on color neutrality.

As for my opinion, I think that if someone started out cubing non-CN, there's no point wasting his time becoming color neutral when he could be improving other aspects of cubing. On the other hand, if someone started out cubing CN, and is used to it, there's really no reason for him to try switching to non-CN.

 

[jskyler91]

The way I read it, he opposes your assertions that;
A: Your method is original,
B: It's easy,
C: It can be done in 2 weeks, or whatever timescale takes your fancy.

I don't like to put words in Kir's mouth but I think all of these oppositions are important and valid. I've no problem with people learning to be CN but you blow it up to be much more beneficial than it actually is.

If this is the case then I would reply as follows:

1. I never claimed it to be original, I even say in the video that this is just my mixing a few things together to make a better method. What I claim it to be is different and IMO effective
2. Never said it was easy, I said it is easier than most think, but definitely not easy.
3. I believe that it can be done for the average speeded- 15- sup 1 minute in a month, it might take longer for the faster as I say in my response to nay sayers vid.

Where is the evidence that the alternative is?

Logic my dear friend, logic. That and the fact that any other successful habit changing program does just this.

 

[Muesli]

3. I believe that it can be done for the average speeded- 15- sup 1 minute in a month, it might take longer for the faster as I say in my response to nay sayers vid.

And your evidence for this is? Here's the problem.

 

[Kirjava]

So your reply to my request for evidence is 'logic'. Not even some actual logic, just the word logic itself.

 

[jskyler91]

This whole thing boils down to you not providing a single shred of evidence for why your "method" works. You posted a way to attempt to become CN, and keep insisting that your opinions are fact without backing any of it up. There is no way for anyone to actually prove that a type of practice will help you become CN quicker, because it is not something that can be proven. Stop arguing for your method as an end-all solution without really proving why it is good.

My evidence is in both the logic and in the multiple posts on google about breaking habits:
http://www.wikihow.com/Break-a-Habit
http://www.pickthebrain.com/blog/strategies-for-breaking-bad-habits-and-cultivating-good-ones/
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/12934...icted-food-how-break-your-habit/#.TwzkY2NWqRM

In particular, I read about this:
http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2005/04/30-days-to-success/
and tried to apply it to speedcubing. I don't claim that my adaption will be perfect, but the logic is sound.

And your evidence for this is? Here's the problem.

I have not done studies on this if you mean that, how could I since I just shared this with you guys? This is what I hoped to gain by having people try my method, however people tried to jump down my throat the moment I posted the vid. All I have is the logic that studies done by steve pavlina show that a habit can be broken in 30 days if you stick to it. The best way to stick to something is to remove all forms of temptation (i.e. no using white cross), this can be seen in studies done on drug addicts and is simply logical. I took these two thoughts and used them for my "method", I added the color filters because it is an easy way to explain how our minds lookahead and filter out other colors. This is the logic I refer to.

 

[Kirjava]

Colour bias is an attribute, not a habit.

 

[jskyler91]

Colour bias is an attribute, not a habit.

Lets consider their definitions according to websters dictionary.
habit [hab-it]  
Example Sentences Origin
hab·it1    [hab-it] Show IPA
noun
1.
an acquired behavior pattern regularly followed until it has become almost involuntary: the habit of looking both ways before crossing the street.
2.
customary practice or use: Daily bathing is an American habit.
3.
a particular practice, custom, or usage: the habit of shaking hands.
4.
a dominant or regular disposition or tendency; prevailing character or quality: She has a habit of looking at the bright side of things.
5.
addiction, especially to narcotics (often preceded by the ).


at·trib·ute   [v. uh-trib-yoot; n. a-truh-byoot] Show IPA verb, -ut·ed, -ut·ing, noun
verb (used with object)
1.
to regard as resulting from a specified cause; consider as caused by something indicated (usually followed by to ): She attributed his bad temper to ill health.
2.
to consider as a quality or characteristic of the person, thing, group, etc., indicated: He attributed intelligence to his colleagues.
3.
to consider as made by the one indicated, especially with strong evidence but in the absence of conclusive proof: to attribute a painting to an artist.
4.
to regard as produced by or originating in the time, period, place, etc., indicated; credit; assign: to attribute a work to a particular period; to attribute a discovery to a particular country.
noun

It is both, it is a habit that can be attributed to multitude of factors including simply lack of knowledge that doing all colors is more optimal than doing one color first.

 

[Kirjava]

Sure, it can be called a habit in a certain context, but the way your 'evidence' uses the word habit is specifically as the 5th definition, which is not what colour bias is an example of.

(by the way, I was using attribute as a noun - you didn't really understand what I was saying)

 

[jskyler91]

Sure, it can be called a habit in a certain context, but the way your 'evidence' uses the word habit is specifically as the 5th definition, which is not what colour bias is an example of.

(by the way, I was using attribute as a noun - you didn't really understand what I was saying)

Attribute- Noun:
something attributed as belonging to a person, thing, group, etc.; a quality, character, characteristic, or property: Sensitivity is one of his attributes.
6.
something used as a symbol of a particular person, office, or status: A scepter is one of the attributes of a king.
7.
Grammar . a word or phrase that is syntactically subordinate to another and serves to limit, identify, particularize, describe, or supplement the meaning of the form with which it is in construction. In the red house, red is an attribute of house.
8.
Fine Arts . an object associated with or symbolic of a character, office, or quality, as the keys of St. Peter or the lion skin of Hercules.
9.
Philosophy . (in the philosophy of Spinoza) any of the essential qualifications of God, thought and extension being the only ones known. Compare mode1 ( def. 4b ) .

I assume you mean the first and in which case it still fits more properly into habit seeing as how it fits 4 of the 5 defs and only 2 of the 9 defs for attribute.

Getting back onto topic, considering what I have said and why I made the video, and keeping the evidence in mind, do you still feel that switching to color neutrality in a month is impossible even if you are faster?

 

[Kirjava]

I assume you mean the first and in which case it still fits more properly into habit seeing as how it fits 4 of the 5 defs and only 2 of the 9 defs for attribute.

You did not understand what I wrote. "the way your 'evidence' uses the word habit is specifically as the 5th definition, which is not what colour bias is an example of".

 

[Muesli]

Getting back onto topic, considering what I have said and why I made the video, and keeping the evidence in mind, do you still feel that switching to color neutrality in a month is impossible even if you are faster?

Yes.

 

[jskyler91]

First of all Color fixededness is like an addiction since most people do it and cannot stop themselve, then again so is cubing in general, second, almost all of the definitions of habit are interchangeable and thus still apply. Being color fixed is 1.an acquired behavior pattern regularly followed until it has become almost involuntary: the habit of looking both ways before crossing the street. 2.a customary practice or use: Daily bathing is an American habit. 3. a particular practice, custom, or usage: the habit of shaking hands. and 4, a dominant or regular disposition or tendency; prevailing character or quality: She has a habit of looking at the bright side of things. All of these are also descriptions of an addiction for which my sources are used.

Now can we please just end this? I am not saying that becoming color neutral is easy, because I completely understand that it isn't and it wasn't even that easy when I did it, but it is like learning pll, at first it is really difficult, but you look back at it a few months later it doesn't seem that bad and it totally seems worth it. All I am saying is that if one pushes themselves to stick to a strict regiment which has no temptations and gives them ample time (a month is quite a while, I learned all of Oll and a month!! and doing one color for five days is a lot of time, try doing one color for a day straight and see how much you improve on that color , now try doing it for five times that. ) to change. Please explain how I am wrong here?

Yes.

Your reasoning and support?

 

[Muesli]

Your reasoning and support?

I believe it to be true.

 

[asportking]

at first it is really difficult, but you look back at it a few months later it doesn't seem that bad and it totally seems worth it.

This is where I disagree. If you don't start out color neutral, I don't feel like it's worth it to switch when you could be doing other things like improving F2L.

 

[Kirjava]

First of all Color fixededness is like an addiction since most people do it and cannot stop themselve, then again so is cubing in general, second, almost all of the definitions of habit are interchangeable and thus still apply. Being color fixed is 1.an acquired behavior pattern regularly followed until it has become almost involuntary: the habit of looking both ways before crossing the street. 2.a customary practice or use: Daily bathing is an American habit. 3. a particular practice, custom, or usage: the habit of shaking hands. and 4, a dominant or regular disposition or tendency; prevailing character or quality: She has a habit of looking at the bright side of things. All of these are also descriptions of an addiction for which my sources are used.

'Addiction' generally requires the activity in question as thought to be addictive to have an overall negative consequence associated with it. Colour bias has not been shown to have an overall negative effect.

Now can we please just end this? I am not saying that becoming color neutral is easy, because I completely understand that it isn't and it wasn't even that easy when I did it, but it is like learning pll, at first it is really difficult, but you look back at it a few months later it doesn't seem that bad and it totally seems worth it. All I am saying is that if one pushes themselves to stick to a strict regiment which has no temptations and gives them ample time (a month is quite a while, I learned all of Oll and a month!! and doing one color for five days is a lot of time, try doing one color for a day straight and see how much you improve on that color , now try doing it for five times that. ) to change. Please explain how I am wrong here?

You think your limited experience applies to everyone in all situations. This is why you are wrong.

 

[jskyler91]

I believe it to be true.

well if that is all one needs to do to have a valid argument then I simply believe I am right and while I am at it I believe that I believe I can fly too.

This is where I disagree. If you don't start out color neutral, I don't feel like it's worth it to switch when you could be doing other things like improving F2L.

That is simply a matter of opinion, and we aren't talking about if u should switch, I but how to do it.

 

[Kirjava]

we aren't talking about if u should switch, I but how to do it.

No. This topic is about if you should switch or not. You're the only person who thinks how to switch is important.