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Belief in evolution?

Do you believe in evolution?


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Lol <3 you too

but srsly, it isn't just about semantics. You wouldn't say "I believe 3+4=7". You wouldn't say "I believe when I let go of this rock it wall move in a direction towards the ground without the assistance of any animate being". These are just facts, and it doesn't make sense to say it. In the same way you don't believe in a scientific theory, you either support it or you don't (or parts of it).

Belief only applies to things we can't know or find out (at least given current levels of knowledge and technological limitations).
But hypotheses about the origin of species are not facts or theories, they are hypotheses.
 

JasonK

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But hypotheses about the origin of species are not facts or theories, they are hypotheses.
Evolution started out as a hypothesis, or as a collection of related hypotheses. But the mountain of evidence in support of it and the inability of anyone to satisfactorily disprove it lead to it becoming one of the most well-supported theories to ever exist in science.

You can argue over the details of exactly how big a role natural selection (or any other evolution-driving process) plays in the overall scheme of evolutionary history, but the fact that evolution occurs is no longer a subject of reasonable debate.
 
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Evolution started out as a hypothesis, or as a collection of related hypotheses. But the mountain of evidence in support of it and the inability of anyone to satisfactorily disprove it lead to it becoming one of the most well-supported theories to ever exist in science.

You can argue over the details of exactly how big a role natural selection (or any other evolution-driving process) plays in the overall scheme of evolutionary history, but the fact that evolution occurs is no longer a subject of reasonable debate.
Yes, I agree that evolution occurs. It is how evolution is applied to the origin of life (described below) that I have problems with.

I'm going to need some clarification on what you mean by "origin of species", because that is ambiguous in a number of ways. Certainly I never said anything about the origin of species.
You're right that is more ambiguous then I intended. I guess I meant the origin of life/common descent that is often attributed to evolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution#Evolutionary_history_of_life). You may have never addressed this but I think this is the real issue being discussed here.
 

Dene

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I guess I meant the origin of life/common descent that is often attributed to evolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution#Evolutionary_history_of_life). You may have never addressed this but I think this is the real issue being discussed here.
Hmmm actually you might be right that the originally intended purpose of this thread was to discuss whether life started because of God, or because of the primordial soup. But that is something completely different to evolutionary theory.

If this thread is indeed about the origin of life rather than evolution, then it is definitely up for belief, as there is no way anyone in our present time could postulate with any certainty about it.
 
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Hmmm actually you might be right that the originally intended purpose of this thread was to discuss whether life started because of God, or because of the primordial soup. But that is something completely different to evolutionary theory.

If this thread is indeed about the origin of life rather than evolution, then it is definitely up for belief, as there is no way anyone in our present time could postulate with any certainty about it.
I agree. I think the thread was more just about beliefs about the origin of life. If so, then nobody can know for certain. It would be like trying to work out the equation of Pi times 43 quintillion in your head, except it would be millions of times harder.
 

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Here's an article that might interest readers in this thread:

Big Bang a big question for most Americans
6:07am April 22, 2014
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/technology/2014/04/22/13/25/big-bang-a-big-question-for-most-americans

While scientists believe the universe began with a Big Bang, most Americans put a big question mark on the concept, a poll as found.

Yet when it comes to smoking causing cancer or that a genetic code determines who we are, the doubts disappear.

When considering concepts scientists consider truths, Americans have more scepticism than confidence in those that are farther away from our bodies in scope and time: global warming, the age of the Earth and evolution and especially the Big Bang from 13.8 billion years ago.

Rather than quizzing scientific knowledge, the Associated Press-GfK survey asked people to rate their confidence in several statements about science and medicine.
On some, there's broad acceptance.

Just four per cent doubt that smoking causes cancer, six per cent question whether mental illness is a medical condition that affects the brain and eight per cent are sceptical there's a genetic code inside our cells.

More - 15 per cent - have doubts about the safety and efficacy of childhood vaccines.

About four in 10 say they are not too confident or outright disbelieve that the earth is warming, mostly a result of man-made heat-trapping gases, that the Earth is 4.5 billion years old or that life on Earth evolved through a process of natural selection, though most were at least somewhat confident in each of those
concepts.

But a narrow majority - 51 per cent - questions the Big Bang theory.

Those results depress and upset some of America's top scientists, including several Nobel Prize winners, who vouched for the science in the statements tested, calling them settled scientific facts.

"Science ignorance is pervasive in our society, and these attitudes are reinforced when some of our leaders are openly antagonistic to established facts," said 2013 Nobel Prize in medicine winner Randy Schekman of the University of California, Berkeley.

The poll highlights "the iron triangle of science, religion and politics," said Anthony Leiserowitz, director of the Yale Project on Climate Change Communication.
And scientists know they've got the shakiest leg in the triangle.

To the public "most often values and beliefs trump science" when they conflict, said Alan Leshner, chief executive of the world's largest scientific society, the American Association for the Advancement of Science.

Political and religious values were closely tied to views on science in the poll, with Democrats more apt than Republicans to express confidence in evolution, the Big Bang, the age of the Earth and climate change.

Confidence in evolution, the Big Bang, the age of the Earth and climate change decline sharply as faith in a supreme being rises, according to the poll.

Likewise, those who regularly attend religious services or are evangelical Christians express much greater doubts about scientific concepts they may see as
contradictory to their faith.

The AP-GfK Poll was conducted March 20-24, 2014, using KnowledgePanel, GfK's probability-based online panel designed to be representative of the US population.

It involved online interviews with 1012 adults and has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3.4 percentage points for all respondents.

© AP 2014
 
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To everybody who believes in evolution:

Think about it for a minute. Evolutionists say that all living creatures evolved over time; that is the definition of evolution. I 100% agree in microevolution, that is, living creatures change to their environment. Science has proven that over and over again!

But macroevolution, that is, one species changing into another? 100% false. How can you expect one animal to turn into another, regardless of how much time is used? The fact is, every living thing has it's own DNA, and no matter how much change (microevolution) an animal goes through (again according to it's environment), it will still have the same DNA.

And to the "Christians" who say they believe in evolution, I strongly doubt your sincerity. The first chapter of Genesis explains God creating the world (and everything in it) in six literal days. Those six days should not be taken to mean what they don't; when it says in Genesis 1:13: "And there was evening and there was morning, the third day.", it means, literally, the third day!

But also, those who believe in evolution, you do realize that by believing in that, you reject God, and you WILL go to Hell. End of story. Those who do not trust Jesus Christ for Salvation will go to Hell, and if you believe in evolution, you obviously don't believe in God's Word, because it clearly says how the earth (and everything/body in it) was created! Trust Jesus for Salvation, and believe in the Word of God! If you have any questions, please, ask! This is without a doubt the biggest decision you can ever make. Period.

More information: https://answersingenesis.org/media/video/evolution/evolution-refuted/
 
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To everybody who believes in evolution:

Think about it for a minute. Evolutionists say that all living creatures evolved over time; that is the definition of evolution. I 100% agree in microevolution, that is, living creatures change to their environment. Science has proven that over and over again!

But macroevolution, that is, one species changing into another? 100% false. How can you expect one animal to turn into another, regardless of how much time is used? The fact is, every living thing has it's own DNA, and no matter how much change (microevolution) an animal goes through (again according to it's environment), it will still have the same DNA.

And to the "Christians" who say they believe in evolution, I strongly doubt your sincerity. The first chapter of Genesis explains God creating the world (and everything in it) in six literal days. Those six days should not be taken to mean what they don't; when it says in Genesis 1:13: "And there was evening and there was morning, the third day.", it means, literally, the third day!

But also, those who believe in evolution, you do realize that by believing in that, you reject God, and you WILL go to Hell. End of story. Those who do not trust Jesus Christ for Salvation will go to Hell, and if you believe in evolution, you obviously don't believe in God's Word, because it clearly says how the earth (and everything/body in it) was created! Trust Jesus for Salvation, and believe in the Word of God! If you have any questions, please, ask! This is without a doubt the biggest decision you can ever make. Period.

More information: https://answersingenesis.org/media/video/evolution/evolution-refuted/
I agree with what you are saying howeverwant to ask what you think of Christians who believe in evolution, are they rejecting god if they still accept christ?
 
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But macroevolution, that is, one species changing into another? 100% false. How can you expect one animal to turn into another, regardless of how much time is used? The fact is, every living thing has it's own DNA, and no matter how much change (microevolution) an animal goes through (again according to it's environment), it will still have the same DNA.
An animal turning into another animal… Sounds like someone's been playing Pokémon!

Speciation as a hard boundary is one of those things actual scientists discarded as a concept long ago, because it turns out that reality seems to prefer fuzzy boundaries over hard ones. DNA between two organisms can be extremely similar, extremely dissimilar, or anything in between. Obviously we don't want to consider a parent and a child to be of different species (… caveats apply), but "being of the same species" doesn't have to be a transitive relation. If an organism differs significantly from its (great)^1000-grandparents, why should we consider them to be the same species?

(Also this is really obvious and I assume you misspoke, but DNA within a species (conservatively defined, because, you know, fuzzy boundaries) is not uniformly identical. Individual variation exists, which is what drives "micro"evolution. On a longer timescale, this leads to "macro"evolution.)
 
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I agree with what you are saying howeverwant to ask what you think of Christians who believe in evolution, are they rejecting god if they still accept christ?
The fact is, while they may believe in Christ, they don't believe GOD'S WORD! The Bible has no mistakes, and if you believe that evolution is true, then you clearly don't believe that the creation account in Genesis is true.

But I suppose I was out of line by saying they CAN'T be Christians. I just personally feel that if you trust in Jesus for salvation, that you should also believe that the world (and everything in it) didn't evolve.

An animal turning into another animal… Sounds like someone's been playing Pokémon!

Speciation as a hard boundary is one of those things actual scientists discarded as a concept long ago, because it turns out that reality seems to prefer fuzzy boundaries over hard ones. DNA between two organisms can be extremely similar, extremely dissimilar, or anything in between. Obviously we don't want to consider a parent and a child to be of different species (… caveats apply), but "being of the same species" doesn't have to be a transitive relation. If an organism differs significantly from its (great)^1000-grandparents, why should we consider them to be the same species?

(Also this is really obvious and I assume you misspoke, but DNA within a species (conservatively defined, because, you know, fuzzy boundaries) is not uniformly identical. Individual variation exists, which is what drives "micro"evolution. On a longer timescale, this leads to "macro"evolution.)
Yes, I did misspeak. Thank you for the correction. However, no matter how much variation between species, the changes in DNA WILL NOT result in a new creature.
 
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The fact is, while they may believe in Christ, they don't believe GOD'S WORD! The Bible has no mistakes, and if you believe that evolution is true, then you clearly don't believe that the creation account in Genesis is true.

But I suppose I was out of line by saying they CAN'T be Christians. I just personally feel that if you trust in Jesus for salvation, that you should also believe that the world (and everything in it) didn't evolve.



Yes, I did misspeak. Thank you for the correction. However, no matter how much variation between species, the changes in DNA WILL NOT result in a new creature.
Creationists usually use the term kind as in was on the ark in the 'orchard' but no macroevolution and there had never been observed any increase in genetic information and new kinds require new genetic information
 
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Genesis 1, 21-25:
So God created the great sea creatures and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarm, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
And God blessed them, saying, "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth."
And there was evening and there was morning, the fifth day.
And God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds--livestock and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds." And it was so. And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds and the livestock according to their kinds, and everything that creeps on the ground according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.


As you can see, God created all living creatures, and that includes their kinds (which Dictionary.com defines kind as: a class or group of individual objects, people, animals, etc., of the same nature or character, or classified together because they have traits in common). So in my eyes, every animal you see now days was on the Ark during the worldwide flood, and unless they died out due to too extreme change (like Dinosaurs, which I think A: were killed off by humans because they would kill us. or B: Died out due to extreme climate change). That being said, since the Bible says that God made all living things, I believe that he made every single variant of every single creature alive, and over the course of time, they have adapted to where they are at (think of a tiger at the zoo. I live in the Pacific Northwest, and there are tigers at the zoo; they adapted to where they are at).

Again, this is my opinion, and I don't have evidence in Scripture to back it up. However, as a believer in a young earth (that is, an earth that is only 4000 - 6000 years old, as opposed to 4.6 Billion years old, or something like that), I believe that the earth didn't evolve, and that we as humans are made in God's Image. Evolution couldn't make as "well-oiled machines" as humans are, from our eyes, to DNA.

Hopefully I didn't ramble on too much; I apologize if I did.
 
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does evolution occur? of course, it does. Is that how life and the universe came into being? no... Until I see something magically appear itself into existence, I will continue to believe the world had an intelligent creator.
does evolution occur? of course, it does. Is that how life and the universe came into being? no... Until I see something magically appear itself into existence, I will continue to believe the world had an intelligent creator.
Yes, evolution does occur, but not in the form of changing from one species into another. The fact is, you look at every single thing that happens in the universe, and it clearly points a Creator.
 
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Genesis 1, 21-25:
So God created the great sea creatures and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarm, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
And God blessed them, saying, "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth."
And there was evening and there was morning, the fifth day.
And God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds--livestock and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds." And it was so. And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds and the livestock according to their kinds, and everything that creeps on the ground according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.


As you can see, God created all living creatures, and that includes their kinds (which Dictionary.com defines kind as: a class or group of individual objects, people, animals, etc., of the same nature or character, or classified together because they have traits in common). So in my eyes, every animal you see now days was on the Ark during the worldwide flood, and unless they died out due to too extreme change (like Dinosaurs, which I think A: were killed off by humans because they would kill us. or B: Died out due to extreme climate change). That being said, since the Bible says that God made all living things, I believe that he made every single variant of every single creature alive, and over the course of time, they have adapted to where they are at (think of a tiger at the zoo. I live in the Pacific Northwest, and there are tigers at the zoo; they adapted to where they are at).

Again, this is my opinion, and I don't have evidence in Scripture to back it up. However, as a believer in a young earth (that is, an earth that is only 4000 - 6000 years old, as opposed to 4.6 Billion years old, or something like that), I believe that the earth didn't evolve, and that we as humans are made in God's Image. Evolution couldn't make as "well-oiled machines" as humans are, from our eyes, to DNA.

Hopefully I didn't ramble on too much; I apologize if I did.
Its estimated that only 16000 kinds were necessary for sufficient natural selection to take place afterwards, otherwise there would probably not be enough space.
 
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Its estimated that only 16000 kinds were necessary for sufficient natural selection to take place afterwards, otherwise there would probably not be enough space.
If you mean that there was only room for 16,000 kinds to populate the earth, then I agree. People have breeded dogs for many years (that's a thought I had earlier).
 
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@RedJack22

The old testament serves no purpose but to provide theological context and establish the 360+ messianic prophecies, all of which are fulfilled. Take everything else you've ever read from the old testament and completely forget it. Rip it out of your Bible, tear it up, and leave it on the floor on the very edge of the nonfiction section of the library. It is 99% complete trash, and functionally obsolete pursuant the claims of Christ in Mt 5:18 as well as the other synoptic gospels and multiple occasions in the epistles.

The unguided evolutionary fairy-tale that humankind spontaneously (but "slowly", as if that has any bearing LOL) spawned from mud is not false because "it says so on my doctored pseudo-Satanic (protestant) old-testament toilet paper". Rather, it's simply statistically implausible, as is any of the near-infinite number of finely tuned parameters that have been paramount in the progression of the universe into a state conducive to human life as we know it.

I agree that the Catholic God exists and that he is responsible for humankind. However, He is likely laughing that you would quote from an expired almanac (because that is literally what the old testament is) two millennia after His son explicitly told you not to (read Hebrews).
 
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@RedJack22

The old testament serves no purpose but to provide theological context and establish the 360+ messianic prophecies, all of which are fulfilled. Take everything else you've ever read from the old testament and completely forget it. Rip it out of your Bible, tear it up, and leave it on the floor on the very edge of the nonfiction section of the library. It is 99% complete trash, and functionally obsolete pursuant the claims of Christ in Mt 5:18 as well as the other synoptic gospels and multiple occasions in the epistles.

The unguided evolutionary fairy-tale that humankind spontaneously (but "slowly", as if that has any bearing LOL) spawned from mud is not false because "it says so on my doctored pseudo-Satanic (protestant) old-testament toilet paper". Rather, it's simply statistically implausible, as is any of the near-infinite number of finely tuned parameters that have been paramount in the progression of the universe into a state conducive to human life as we know it.

I agree that the Catholic God exists and that he is responsible for humankind. However, He is likely laughing that you would quote from an expired almanac (because that is literally what the old testament is) two millennia after His son explicitly told you not to (read Hebrews).
Does the Bible not say that anyone who tries to add or take away from the Bible will be punished. Yes Christians don't generally follow all the old testament laws but that doesn't mean we shouldn't read them, that's why I read the Bible cover to cover usually. What happened in the old testament is still history (creation, corruption, catastrophe, confusion, [Israelites and the prophets], Christ, cross, consummation)
 
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