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Baltimore Spring 2010

Will you attend this competition?


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    30
  • Poll closed .
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I have a stackmat that's not mine labeled "canadian cubing" that somehow ended in my bag.
LOL TIM!! I will trade you for a stackmat with two missing buttons, how about that? At least i can get my sense of security back now.
Well, there goes mine :p

As far as Shane, since Dave remembers scrambling the last four solves, I think it is possible that Shane put down a scrambled (in his special way) cube when he brought the cube up, and that this wasn't noticed in the chaos. A judge could then have picked up the cube, brought it over, and let him solve it (in 13 seconds) without the cube ever having been properly scrambled.
My guess is that Dave made sure that he scrambled the remaining four cubes (to make sure that they were scrambled with the official scrambles), rather than just scrambling random cubes and noting that he scrambled Shane the remaining four times.
 
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Thanks, qqwref. It really is just different styles not working together.

I did not ignore anyone. Dave simply assumed that everyone had his experience. He did his own thing pretty well, but did not bother to share his knowledge in a clear way. If he even gave me as much info as in your post, things could have been better.
 

masterofthebass

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As far as Shane, since Dave remembers scrambling the last four solves, I think it is possible that Shane put down a scrambled (in his special way) cube when he brought the cube up, and that this wasn't noticed in the chaos. A judge could then have picked up the cube, brought it over, and let him solve it (in 13 seconds) without the cube ever having been properly scrambled.
My guess is that Dave made sure that he scrambled the remaining four cubes (to make sure that they were scrambled with the official scrambles), rather than just scrambling random cubes and noting that he scrambled Shane the remaining four times.
I'm just wondering about the first solve. None of the others are suspicious.
 
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As far as Shane, since Dave remembers scrambling the last four solves, I think it is possible that Shane put down a scrambled (in his special way) cube when he brought the cube up, and that this wasn't noticed in the chaos. A judge could then have picked up the cube, brought it over, and let him solve it (in 13 seconds) without the cube ever having been properly scrambled.
I think it's pretty obvious that this is how it happened. It would seem a lot more suspicious to go back to the scrambling table between solves to set up an easy scramble, but on the first solve it would be very easy to rig a scramble. If Shane isn't dealt with severely it sends a message to others that they can get away with this, and honestly they probably can. I can't think of a competition I've been to where there wouldn't of been an opportunity for this kind of cheating. Scramblers can't really devote their full attention to watching if competitiors bring up a scrambled or solved cube. All Shane needed was a couple of seconds to put his "scrambled" cube under his scorecard. This was premeditated, deliberate, obvious cheating and we don't need him around.
 
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As far as Shane, since Dave remembers scrambling the last four solves, I think it is possible that Shane put down a scrambled (in his special way) cube when he brought the cube up, and that this wasn't noticed in the chaos. A judge could then have picked up the cube, brought it over, and let him solve it (in 13 seconds) without the cube ever having been properly scrambled.
I think it's pretty obvious that this is how it happened. It would seem a lot more suspicious to go back to the scrambling table between solves to set up an easy scramble, but on the first solve it would be very easy to rig a scramble. If Shane isn't dealt with severely it sends a message to others that they can get away with this, and honestly they probably can. I can't think of a competition I've been to where there wouldn't of been an opportunity for this kind of cheating. Scramblers can't really devote their full attention to watching if competitiors bring up a scrambled or solved cube. All Shane needed was a couple of seconds to put his "scrambled" cube under his scorecard. This was premeditated, deliberate, obvious cheating and we don't need him around.
AdamZ tried this at a Berkeley competition once (for experimental purposes, to see if someone could actually get away with it). One of the scramblers caught him, but I can see how someone could get away with it if there was a lot of chaos at the scrambling table, or with volunteer staff who are less experienced with what's going on.

If you had enough staff to have an extra runner, you could have competitors put their cubes on their scorecards at a separate table, then have a runner bring cubes from that table to the scrambling table. This way competitors would not be approaching the scrambling table at all.
 
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I've seen several people get solved cubes brought to them because the judges left the scorecard on top of the cube instead of putting it underneath. I feel that catching this kind of mistake would be similar to catching someone who cheats in this manner. While Adam may of gotten caught I think that you would get away with this more times than you wouldn't. Even if you did get caught you could play it off as a mental slip. If we let really obvious cheaters get away with this then we're opening up the doors for subtle cheaters to cause real problems. What if instead of a 50ish solver getting a 13 it was a 11ish solver getting sub 7? Banning Shane is the prudent action to take here.
 
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No. From the beginning, I suggested 2 scrambling tables. It would have made things a lot faster. However, Dave rejected the idea 2 times. He clearly wanted to be in control. When things don't end up the way he likes, he tries to blame it on me. If he was not there, I could have taken control and ran the competition my way. I thought he was experienced and let him do his thing, then helped out as much as possible with everything else.
I guess it's my fault for taking everyone's opinion into consideration. I really could have just ignored Dave and finished everything more efficiently my own way.
I am really sorry to read you feel this way, Wuqiong. I can't help but think you are misunderstanding what i have written and said to you in person. I am actually not trying to bash you, as you have suggested. I wasn't even going to post in the public form about it, but the topic was already in full flight so it made sense to me to add to it. All i wanted was to help you in a productive way. But you don't appear to be receptive of it, so i am done with that.

It also saddens me that you are, more or less, saying that i am the reason for the issues. I drove 16 hours, spent hundreds of dollars to come to this competition. I did more work at the competition than i should have had to do, and that is the gratitude i get for it all.

The kicker here is that i was but one of about five people that stepped up and pitched in to help make the competition work, yet somehow find myself the scapegoat. And i don't say that to try and drag them under the bus with me, but to give credit to the others that also busted their humps for the sake of the competition. But that is fine. I will call it a lesson learned on my end. I wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors.
 
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No. From the beginning, I suggested 2 scrambling tables. It would have made things a lot faster. However, Dave rejected the idea 2 times. He clearly wanted to be in control. When things don't end up the way he likes, he tries to blame it on me. If he was not there, I could have taken control and ran the competition my way. I thought he was experienced and let him do his thing, then helped out as much as possible with everything else.
I guess it's my fault for taking everyone's opinion into consideration. I really could have just ignored Dave and finished everything more efficiently my own way.
I am really sorry to read you feel this way, Wuqiong. I can't help but think you are misunderstanding what i have written and said to you in person. I am actually not trying to bash you, as you have suggested. I wasn't even going to post in the public form about it, but the topic was already in full flight so it made sense to me to add to it. All i wanted was to help you in a productive way. But you don't appear to be receptive of it, so i am done with that.

It also saddens me that you are, more or less, saying that i am the reason for the issues. I drove 16 hours, spent hundreds of dollars to come to this competition. I did more work at the competition than i should have had to do, and that is the gratitude i get for it all.

The kicker here is that i was but one of about five people that stepped up and pitched in to help make the competition work, yet somehow find myself the scapegoat. And i don't say that to try and drag them under the bus with me, but to give credit to the others that also busted their humps for the sake of the competition. But that is fine. I will call it a lesson learned on my end. I wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors.
Without you there we would've really been screwed..thanks for being there Dave.
 
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No. From the beginning, I suggested 2 scrambling tables. It would have made things a lot faster. However, Dave rejected the idea 2 times. He clearly wanted to be in control. When things don't end up the way he likes, he tries to blame it on me. If he was not there, I could have taken control and ran the competition my way. I thought he was experienced and let him do his thing, then helped out as much as possible with everything else.
I guess it's my fault for taking everyone's opinion into consideration. I really could have just ignored Dave and finished everything more efficiently my own way.
I am really sorry to read you feel this way, Wuqiong. I can't help but think you are misunderstanding what i have written and said to you in person. I am actually not trying to bash you, as you have suggested. I wasn't even going to post in the public form about it, but the topic was already in full flight so it made sense to me to add to it. All i wanted was to help you in a productive way. But you don't appear to be receptive of it, so i am done with that.

It also saddens me that you are, more or less, saying that i am the reason for the issues. I drove 16 hours, spent hundreds of dollars to come to this competition. I did more work at the competition than i should have had to do, and that is the gratitude i get for it all.

The kicker here is that i was but one of about five people that stepped up and pitched in to help make the competition work, yet somehow find myself the scapegoat. And i don't say that to try and drag them under the bus with me, but to give credit to the others that also busted their humps for the sake of the competition. But that is fine. I will call it a lesson learned on my end. I wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors.
See my final post after that. Qqwref made a clear conclusion. You did your part well and I did my part well. I thanked you many times for your help. We simply had different styles of running things and we should have communicated more during the competition. You are not the reason behind the problems; it's our conflicting styles of management without communication. I did learn a lot from you and this experience in general. If I would work with you again, I would have a more detailed plan and communicate with you often during the competition.
The main problem was the lack of communication. If I took complete control and told you exactly what to do, things would have been more structured. But I thought you were more experienced, so I left you to do your own thing. If you were in complete control, then you could have done even better due to your experience. There was a bit of conflict of plans. Also keep in mind that we did not have as much experience or human resources as at Canadian competitions, so there's no way you could have expected things would turn out the same way. You guys have a complete organization, a whole support team, and a clear routine. I'm sure there were things you had to tweak after your first competition. Our group is inexperienced and not as reliable to show up. Don't be so picky and just make the best out of what you have. People learn from experiences and you can't just expect everything to go your way perfectly. Also be a bit more optimistic; for most other people, the competition was not as bad as you feel it to be.
I really did listen to all your suggestions after the competition and thought about what could have been done better. I have been receptive and will take many of your ideas, but that doesn't mean that I can't share my own perspective and ideas. Thanks again for your help!

Without you there we would've really been screwed..thanks for being there Dave.
Dave's a helpful guy and you were very helpful too, but don't be a kiss-up. Human beings are very flexible. We could have gotten things done one way or another.
 
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Without you there we would've really been screwed..thanks for being there Dave.
Dave's a helpful guy and you were very helpful too, but don't be a kiss-up. Human beings are very flexible. We could have gotten things done one way or another.
Sorry for thanking him. Getting things done isn't the same as getting things done in an organized fashion...that's the whole issue...
 
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Without you there we would've really been screwed..thanks for being there Dave.
Dave's a helpful guy and you were very helpful too, but don't be a kiss-up. Human beings are very flexible. We could have gotten things done one way or another.
Sorry for thanking him. Getting things done isn't the same as getting things done in an organized fashion...that's the whole issue...
:fp
There's nothing wrong with thanking him. You should have thanked him. Everyone should have thanked him.
Did you miss the whole discussion? We could have been been more organized without him. I would have stepped to take control over everything and the people just sitting around would have been ordered to do work. He helped out a lot with the scrambling and that's all.
You cannot blame a single person for the lack of organization. It was the overall lack of communication.
 

PatrickJameson

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Without you there we would've really been screwed..thanks for being there Dave.
Dave's a helpful guy and you were very helpful too, but don't be a kiss-up. Human beings are very flexible. We could have gotten things done one way or another.
Sorry for thanking him. Getting things done isn't the same as getting things done in an organized fashion...that's the whole issue...
:fp
There's nothing wrong with thanking him. You should have thanked him. Everyone should have thanked him.
Did you miss the whole discussion? We could have been been more organized without him. I would have stepped to take control over everything and the people just sitting around would have been ordered to do work. He helped out a lot with the scrambling and that's all.
You cannot blame a single person for the lack of organization. It was the overall lack of communication.
You might want to stop while you're down.
 
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You might want to stop while you're down.
No one realizes how much I had to sacrifice for the competition. I've lost my interest in cubing for a long time. I organized this competition because I promised my friend, who recently recovered from cancer, for 2 years that we would do it and that I wanted give back to the cubing community and just let everyone relax and have fun for a day. I competed in a few events and worked continuously the rest of the time judging, scrambling, and checking up on people. I did not want my friends or teacher to be so stressed out, so I tried to take care of as many things as I could to allow free time for others. I can say that I was one of the most efficient judges there. There were some disappointing things about the competition, but whatever, be happy with what you got and learn from the experience. No need to complain about it after the fact. It's easy to blame the organizers for everything, but sometimes things are simply out of your control, especially when you have 5 million other things to do at the same time. Maybe I could have been in more control if I didn't compete in FMC. I guess that's my main fault; it was one hour when most of the experienced cubers and I were not in charge of the situation.
I have done as much as, if not more than any other organizers of a competition this size. Most of the people were happy at the time, so I'm satisfied with that. Dave's idea of success was different; he wanted more of an assembly line to efficiently get done as many events and rounds as possible. The organizers wanted things to be more casual, while Dave wanted to have an assembly line. My trusting nature probably made it easier for people to cheat. Dave has his perspective, which I respect and that's it. I'll just accept that I can't make everyone completely happy.
 

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If you had enough staff to have an extra runner, you could have competitors put their cubes on their scorecards at a separate table, then have a runner bring cubes from that table to the scrambling table. This way competitors would not be approaching the scrambling table at all.
A phenomenal idea.
 
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I feel that catching this kind of mistake would be similar to catching someone who cheats in this manner. While Adam may of gotten caught I think that you would get away with this more times than you wouldn't.
Yeah, depends on the location. In an ideal situation (which I guess this wasn't) a good scrambler would figure out which cubes are brought up scrambled and either get the competitors to solve them or make sure the judges don't pick up those cubes. I know I would've noticed something like this (as a scrambler) at a typical California competition, but if tons of people swarm the scrambling table it can be nearly impossible to track.

I think it's time to just close this thread and move on.
Strongly disagree. The organization stuff may have been worked out as well as it could, but we still need to figure out if Shane and his FMC friend were cheating, and what punishment if any would be appropriate to give out. Is it possible for the FMC solution to be published? And is it possible anyone has a video of Shane's solve?
 

Dene

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Well I have to admit this thread is full of LOLs from my perspective.

Personally, fanwuq, I also think you need to give up now. As I recall, Dave is awesome and I bet he only did what was necessary in his view. At Ohio Open, Jimmy was in complete control the whole time and Dave never had to "take command" or whatever you're claiming. Also, it's your competition; if you chose to let him take control that's your own fault. If you wanted things done your way you could have put your foot down (just like I had to at NZ Open last year when the sponsors were doing things all wrong).

(Which reminds me of the time when I was busy judging someone at Ohio Open, and Dave was at the next table judging some kid doing megaminx who went well over the 10 minute mark, and Dave was timing him using a stopwatch with a grim look on his face :D).
 
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