brunson
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You can always solve the last layer edges then corners, if you don't think you can then you are not breaking it down properly. Do you need some advice on recognizing specific situations?
[Help Thread] Algorithm Memorization Discussion
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Can I solve any top layer after OLL with these?
http://www.scribd.com/doc/267250/PLL-list
What I am having a bit trouble is when I have 2 edges near each other or opposite that are not oriented
http://www.scribd.com/doc/267250/PLL-list
What I am having a bit trouble is when I have 2 edges near each other or opposite that are not oriented
deco122392
Regular
if your edges are not oriented then your oll is not complete and one alg for fliping the edges opposit in place is M U M U M U2 M' U M' U M' U2
rjohnson_8ball
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It is not possible to swap just 1 pair of edges without affecting corners. Likewise, you cannot swap just 1 pair of corners without affecting edges. Either rotate the UP face by 90 degrees so that you have a 3 way swap or 2 pair swap -- or learn one algorithm that affects both.
What I used to do (before I knew about all the PLLs) was position the corners first using R' U L U' R U L' (known as "Niklas"). That would swap and twist some corners. Depending on how you rotate the UP face afterward, it looks like 2 corners or 3 corners are swapped. I did it again in the case where 2 opposite corners had needed swapping. Once corners were in place, I oriented using "Sune". See the glossary at http://www.cubefreak.net for "Niklas" and "Sune". Then I would work on the edges.
Today, I do 1 or 2 stages for OLL then rotate the UP face to recognize a PLL, and perform it.
If you intend to orient first, then learn the "A" perm to move corners and "U" perm to move edges. Again, if you see 2 adjacent corners that need swapping, then rotate the UP face by 90 degrees to see 3 corners that need swapping.
What I used to do (before I knew about all the PLLs) was position the corners first using R' U L U' R U L' (known as "Niklas"). That would swap and twist some corners. Depending on how you rotate the UP face afterward, it looks like 2 corners or 3 corners are swapped. I did it again in the case where 2 opposite corners had needed swapping. Once corners were in place, I oriented using "Sune". See the glossary at http://www.cubefreak.net for "Niklas" and "Sune". Then I would work on the edges.
Today, I do 1 or 2 stages for OLL then rotate the UP face to recognize a PLL, and perform it.
If you intend to orient first, then learn the "A" perm to move corners and "U" perm to move edges. Again, if you see 2 adjacent corners that need swapping, then rotate the UP face by 90 degrees to see 3 corners that need swapping.
Last edited:
brunson
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In your original question, do you mean that there are single algorithms that switch three corners and three edges at the same time and can you solve the case by splitting them up? If that's what you mean, then you're looking at a G permutation (see the G perms here: http://www.brunson.com/all.html), and yes, you can solve a G perm with a U perm to solve the edges and an A perm to solve the corners.
AlanAlanine
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i think an easy way to do it would be to
1) adjust U face until two corners are correct
2) perform a J algorithm two solve the other two corners
3) do various edge perms to solve
1) adjust U face until two corners are correct
2) perform a J algorithm two solve the other two corners
3) do various edge perms to solve
Oh. I was of the impression that the "original" Niklas was the S-plane mirror of your alg, which was what I did when I was Petrus-ing :s
rjohnson_8ball
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I am not sure what you mean -- "S" is usually a slice. I think Niklas is perhaps the shortest and simplest algorithm to move corners on one face. (It's side effect is to twist the corners too.) As somebody would remark, it is a standard commutator.
blgentry
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^ He was talking about mirroring the moves of the alg that you wrote, across the S plane, not introducing an S or something. I.E., it's mirrored from front to back.
FWIW, the first last layer method I learned used a version of the alg you wrote, only mirrored across the M plane: I.E., it's mirrored from left to right. It is:
L U' R' U L' U' R U2
The U2 is optional; it just shows you that you did the alg correctly.
FWIW, the first last layer method I learned used a version of the alg you wrote, only mirrored across the M plane: I.E., it's mirrored from left to right. It is:
L U' R' U L' U' R U2
The U2 is optional; it just shows you that you did the alg correctly.
Johannes91
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They're both Niklas. Lars usually doesn't count mirrors as different cases/algs. For example, he only has 270 ZBLL cases here: http://lar5.com/cube/270/.
teller
REAL Fingertricks!
I do think that's what she was trying to ask.
In fact, my wife still does the whole PLL with nothing but a single A perm (facing the headlights away from you unconditionally) and some number of U perms.
what is the best technique to memorise algorithms
hey. well im starting the F2L- OLL - PLL memorisation and i wanted to know how you guys get to know the algos by heart, do you proceed by cases, shapes, i know that knowing what the algorithm actually does is the best way(and it's want i'm doing) but i would love to know how each one of you proceed. this will really help and i'm really looking forward to read your comments. joe
hey. well im starting the F2L- OLL - PLL memorisation and i wanted to know how you guys get to know the algos by heart, do you proceed by cases, shapes, i know that knowing what the algorithm actually does is the best way(and it's want i'm doing) but i would love to know how each one of you proceed. this will really help and i'm really looking forward to read your comments. joe
Vampirate713
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This is how I learn. I will use the 3-corner cycle for an example.
(R' F R' B2 R F' R' B2 R2)
I will start out doing two or three of the first moves (R' F R') over and over, then when I feel good with that, add another move (R' F R' B2). Continuously add moves when you feel like you can handle them. This is mostly how you train muscle memory.
(R' F R' B2 R F' R' B2 R2)
I will start out doing two or three of the first moves (R' F R') over and over, then when I feel good with that, add another move (R' F R' B2). Continuously add moves when you feel like you can handle them. This is mostly how you train muscle memory.
Weiseguy
Regular
This should probably be in the Beginners Area.......
On Topic:
I approach things differently. My way to memorize, which seems very easy to me, is to look at patterns (Badmephisto talks about this a lot on his site and videos) in the algorithm, but more then that.
Usually I write down the algorithms I want to learn (for instance, to learn the 2 Look OLL and 2 Look PLL's, there are 13 algorithms. I wrote all of them down). This gives you a quick photographic thing to turn back to, and, studies show that writing things down help you remember them.
Next, I take the sheet with me all day (along with my cube) and I'll set it up (use the algorithm on a solved cube) then solve it. This gives me 2 things. 1, I read the algorithm while setting up. Then I try to solve/re-read the algorithm
After 3 or 4 times of reading and solving, I start to look more at the cube then the paper, looking at how the cube acts while I solve it.
Finally, after 8-10 times, I start solving without looking at the paper and only the cube. Sometimes I can think of a count/beat in my head that it follows (I'm a musician). Usually after 15-20 times, I've got it.
From there, its all about recognition. I try to do 2-3 at once so I can scramble, solve, and have more then one to remember at once so I know that I am remembering it for good, not just for this moment.
On Topic:
I approach things differently. My way to memorize, which seems very easy to me, is to look at patterns (Badmephisto talks about this a lot on his site and videos) in the algorithm, but more then that.
Usually I write down the algorithms I want to learn (for instance, to learn the 2 Look OLL and 2 Look PLL's, there are 13 algorithms. I wrote all of them down). This gives you a quick photographic thing to turn back to, and, studies show that writing things down help you remember them.
Next, I take the sheet with me all day (along with my cube) and I'll set it up (use the algorithm on a solved cube) then solve it. This gives me 2 things. 1, I read the algorithm while setting up. Then I try to solve/re-read the algorithm
After 3 or 4 times of reading and solving, I start to look more at the cube then the paper, looking at how the cube acts while I solve it.
Finally, after 8-10 times, I start solving without looking at the paper and only the cube. Sometimes I can think of a count/beat in my head that it follows (I'm a musician). Usually after 15-20 times, I've got it.
From there, its all about recognition. I try to do 2-3 at once so I can scramble, solve, and have more then one to remember at once so I know that I am remembering it for good, not just for this moment.
d4m4s74
Veteran
learn by doing it
scramble the cube and use the algs you have written down on paper
scramble the cube and use the algs you have written down on paper
shelley
chang
This is not the place to ask speedsolving-related questions. Mods, please move this to the appropriate forum.
Sir E Brum
Veteran
Practice, practice, practice. The repetition helps a lot.
rahulkadukar
Veteran
Repetition till your hands learn the cube. Infact I can do all the 21 PLL's with my hands but I hardly remeber about 5 of them.
That is my hands know what to do but I cant actually remember the Algorithm
That is my hands know what to do but I cant actually remember the Algorithm
Sg.Speedcuber
Regular
Well I use to have this problem and e-mailed the best speedcubers like Dan Knights,Erik Akkersdijk and so on.I recommend intuitive F2L ,two look OLL and PLL.If the PLL is three edge and three corners,use two look.Memorisation:read the algs aloud and practice it with a cube.I have memorize about 14 PLLs and a few OLLs.I read a book Instant memory improvement it is a great book and my memory is better.
