Should 3x3x3 With Feet Remain an Official WCA Event?

[DeeDubb]

• Feet is arguably the most unsanitary event, since feet are often much less clean than hands

I hope feet gets removed. My reasoning is covered in your Pros list already (negative media attention, unsanitary, doesn't add much as an event).

Feet is unsanitary, I can agree.

Source? Anyone? Honestly, I can't really find a source either way other than speculation, which tends to lead towards more germs being on hands than feet on average.

 

[Sajwo]

I demand removing feet as official event. It is gross, stupid and nobody likes it.

Spoiler

clock too

 

[GrandSlam]

Source? Anyone? Honestly, I can't really find a source either way other than speculation, which tends to lead towards more germs being on hands than feet on average.

You make a good point. After all, we have no idea where any cubers hands have been since washing them last, while feet generally stay protected and clean by shoes and socks.

 

[ALX]

Feet needs to go ASAP. It's disgusting, unsanitary, looks stupid, and isn't very popular either. I would support it going. At this point, they already make the price for competing in feet unreasonably high for many competitions (who thought $15 for one event was a fair price?). I also feel that the removal if Feet could benefit the community b y making room for more worthy events, such as 8x8, Curvy Copter, Master Skewb, Master Pyraminx, Gear Cube, etc. Imo, there are plenty of events that should take it's place .

 

[Deleted member 19792]

You make a good point. After all, we have no idea where any cubers hands have been since washing them last, while feet generally stay protected and clean by shoes and socks.

Source? Anyone? Honestly, I can't really find a source either way other than speculation, which tends to lead towards more germs being on hands than feet on average.

But yet again, what about people's feet after they shower and while they are walking around the house, sleeping in their bed, going to the toilet, or whatever they do in their home? Can't that make things really unsanitary? And you are going to be walking around on the floor before you compete, right? What the hell has been on that floor? Dirt? Water? Someone's vomit after smelling feet? It might be "cleaned up", but we don't know since they probably didn't disinfect the floors.


About two and a half minutes into this video, VSauce talks about 93% of our shoes are contaminated with fecal bacteria. So, we might apply this to feet, but we aren't walking barefoot outside. So how about inside? Since the bacteria can be transferred?

 

[GrandSlam]

Actually, feet solving is extremely impressive to non-cubers. And we all know, deep inside, that cubing is all about impressing non-cubers.
JK.

But yet again, what about people's feet after they shower and while they are walking around the house, sleeping in their bed, going to the toilet, or whatever they do in their home? Can't that make things really unsanitary? And you are going to be walking around on the floor before you compete, right? What the hell has been on that floor? Dirt? Water? Someone's vomit after smelling feet? It might be "cleaned up", but we don't know since they probably didn't disinfect the floors.


This might relate to feet:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYXdsOEWBj0

I still agree with DeeDubb. I won't agree with the unsanitary until I see some real scientific evidence specifically involving feet and cubes. Also, I have watched a few feet solving videos, and in most of them the competitors have clean-looking feet, and all of them take their shoes off only seconds before beginning the solve.

Again, maybe I don't have enough experience with foot solving. I would like to hear from somebody who actually has experience involving feet Cubing.

 

[Deleted member 19792]

I still agree with DeeDubb. I won't agree with the unsanitary until I see some real scientific evidence specifically involving feet and cubes. Also, I have watched a few feet solving videos, and in most of them the competitors have clean-looking feet, and all of them take their shoes off only seconds before beginning the solve.

Again, maybe I don't have enough experience with foot solving. I would like to hear from somebody who actually has experience involving feet Cubing.

Things look clean but are they really clean?

 

[GrandSlam]

Things look clean but are they really clean?

All sanitization issues aside for now, you have to admit that foot solving is impressive. If only 1% of the human race can solve a rubik's cube, then only 1% of cubers can foot solve.

Foot solving is a great talent, but if people are worried about it's sanitation, then suggest a compromise to the WCA. Ask them to provide means of cleaning those supposedly dirty feet.

 

[pandakenleh]

I believe it should remain an official event.

Imagine this, if there are people with disabilities(born with no hand)/lost their both hands and really love speedcubing.
What will happen if they(WCA) remove that event?

Example of this one is Matt Stutzman, an archer born with no arms but still the current world record holder for longest accurate shot in archery. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Stutzman ). I read his story because of this thread. You can google that.
An archer using his foot in holding the bow and his mouth in pulling the string. Is that awesome?
His disability was not a hindrance in his sport/hobby.

Haha.What will happen IF you/I accidentally lost your/my hands?
Your/My whole life was ruined. No more official competitions forever.
You can't do OH. You can't do 2H because the timer must stop by both hands.
The 3x3x3 feet is only the event that you can compete with others. You can do other puzzles with your feet but not as fast as the others because they have hands.


Just sayin' )

 

[Erik]

The goal of this thread is to determine how much support there is for removing 3x3x3 With Feet, and to build a solid list of pros and cons for its potential removal, to take into consideration for the 2015 Regulations.


Questions for everyone:

Do you believe 3x3x3 With Feet should remain an official event? Why or why not?

Yes, it is an event where a special set of skills is needed. It adds another dimension to cubing, just like BLD or FMC. I think we can agree that skill-wize: feet adds much more than something like 7x7 which typically is an event people who solve 6x6 fast, are also good at. (or you can argue it the other way around saying people solving 7x7 mostly are fast at 6x6 as well).

I will add to the pro and con's list below. In short: I think the lack of good pro-removal arguments, makes it a bad candidate to be removed.

Would you support the removal of 3x3x3 With Feet? Why or why not?

That highly depends on which reasons you have for removing. If the main reason is: "I have a feet-phobia" which some people seem to have (not trying to step on anyone's toes here, but if you rather eat worms than solve with feet you seriously seem to have some sort of phobia unless you are Bear Grylls) then this wouldn't make much sense.

If however you would remove it because it is not very popular then I would not be that bothered. However, if that would be the reasoning I would also like to see other events go as well.

Here's a start on a list of pros and cons for removing Feet, mostly based on discussions in other threads.

Note: They are not meant to be interpreted as solid reasons on their own to remove/keep Feet. They are merely pros and cons that would come out of its removal.


Pros for removing Feet:

• Much of the media attention towards Feet is negative and makes competitions look unprofessional. Its removal would reduce the negative media attention and have it more focused on more widely respectable events.

Pleaese provide some backup here, because I don't have this experience. Maybe not many people know this but I also took part in a TV show to solve feet. The attention was merely positive. Same goes for all media encounters I have had which covered something with feet. Not once have I had a negative comment. The closest to a negative comments I get are things like "ok, that's a bit odd, but very impressive". And to be honest: I think traveling 2000miles to compete in a Rubik's cube competition can also be rightly called "a bit odd" in the first place ;-)

• Feet is arguably the most unsanitary event, since feet are often much less clean than hands. Feet solving (both official solves and practice solves at competitions) can contribute to an unpleasant atmosphere to spectators and non-Feet competitors, so its removal would give a more pleasant experience at competitions.

Again: can you provide some information to back this up, other than: it may smell a bit sweaty. I don't know about you, but I keep my feet in my shoes all day long and they don't touch:
- other people
- other people's cubes
- genitals (yes there are people not washing their hands after going to the loo)
- cell phone screens
- etc

Using this logical thinking: if you have a fear of feet, you must also have a fear of hands.

Also: if you want to avoid the much-feared smell, just organize it as the first event and not after 8 hours of competition...

• Fewer people are willing to judge and/or scramble for Feet relative to other events, and it's not so great to have to force people to do either at a competition. It would also be more pleasant for scramblers and judges for other 3x3x3 events to know that competitors don't use the same cube for other 3x3x3 events right after using it for Feet solves.

I am sorry, but this is a non-argument. At least in Europe the unwritten rules state that you don't have to judge an event you are not competing in. Make 2 groups for feet and there is no problem. I'm sure people competing in feet don't have a problem judging feet as well. If they do then they are a hypocrit and it wouldn't be a problem forcing those people to judge anyway.

• 3x3x3 With Feet did not add much as an event in the first place, compared to other events. As a 3x3x3 variant, all it added was another twist to solving a 3x3x3 using a regular speed method, which One-Handed already did, and did better. Its removal would be a small loss in variety of events

Like I stated above: feet adds more dimension and requires more skill to speedcubing than for example 7x7.

• A common "abuse" of the +2 misalignment penalty is to not perform the last move in a Feet solve if it would take more than 2 seconds. Removing Feet would resolve this problem.

If you really need more than 2 seconds to do a turn with feet, then you are so slow that nobody cares about your times anyway. (if you assume 70 quarter turns per solve, this would mean you are at like 2:20 and would be doing moves without ANY pauses, so realistically speaking much slower than 2:20 since looking around is usually the biggest time waster). If anything this "problem" is not a problem caused by the event, but by the +2 rule.

Adding pro's:

• The lack of popularity in big parts of the community. This is a bit of a chicken-egg thing, because people don't do feet, because they can't do it in comp. But then again: people can't do it in comp, because it is not very popular. Of course everyone is free to organize a competition holding feet as an event themselves, but the way it is, it does not seem the most popular event.
• Rebuilding the stage takes a bit of time. This is not a very strong argument, but I think it should be added for the sake of being thorough. The rebuild does not take much time at all, and the event itself is not slow either, but it is a small factor.

Cons for removing Feet:

• Removing the event would make all Feet solves unofficial. It would take away Feet records that took a lot of effort to accomplish.

• Feet solving is popular and well-liked overall in several countries. This also can result in very positive media appearances that just make cubing look more interesting and fascinating.

• As a removal of an event with no immediate replacement, it's simply a loss of an event.

 

[DeeDubb]

About two and a half minutes into this video, VSauce talks about 93% of our shoes are contaminated with fecal bacteria. So, we might apply this to feet, but we aren't walking barefoot outside. So how about inside? Since the bacteria can be transferred?

Mythbusters did something with toothbrushes and fecal bacteria, and it turned out that fecal bacteria is simply everywhere, and not really harmful.

 

[BaMiao]

The people questioning whether or not feet are unsanitary have obviously never been inside a gym locker room or had to live in a college dorm. Or is foot fungus just an American problem? And keeping your feet inside shoes and socks doesn't keep them clean. It turns out that bacteria and fungus just love dark, damp, warm environments.

I think we should be worried about how things like feet solving appear to the general community. I am because I want to see the community grow, and I think feet solving is likely to turn people away from cubing in general. Sure, people are impressed by it, but in many minds it isn't any more than a cheap parlor trick. Besides, in talking with non-cubers, I've found that they're much more impressed with the BLD events, and yet people don't hear about it as much because the media is so focused on feet.

 

[Tim Major]

Uh, people do. Just take a look.

100th in the world has a 2.63:1 ratio to the WR, that shows how much people DON'T care about feet. Only other comparable events to such a huge ratio are 4bld 5bld and multibld, and that's due to difficulty unlike feet.

 

[bran]

All sanitization issues aside for now, you have to admit that foot solving is impressive. If only 1% of the human race can solve a rubik's cube, then only 1% of cubers can foot solve.

Foot solving is a great talent, but if people are worried about it's sanitation, then suggest a compromise to the WCA. Ask them to provide means of cleaning those supposedly dirty feet.

Um no, everyone who can solve a Rubik's cube CAN also solve it with their feet. There is nothing new that you have to learn, in addition to your normal method, to be able to solve a cube with your feet.

 

[kinch2002]

I'm afraid I haven't seen a single argument towards the removal of feet that I totally agree with.

- Enough has been said about how actually all our bodies and our hands especially are just as unhygienic. And also about people with 'feet-phobia'.
- It does not have any major logistical issues. Seriously, it takes 10 seconds to put a stackmat on the floor and put a chair behind it.
- I have only have positive media experience from it.
- The +2 issue is a reason to remove +2, not feet.
- It really doesn't matter how it started. It's the present state that counts.
- It does add a lot to 3x3 as a variation. In fact, I'd say that one-handed adds less than feet. Maybe people who don't feet don't realise this.

 

[porkynator]

If feet wasn't an official event, would anyone start a thread asking to add it?
Hint:

Spoiler

No.

 

[Cubesub1]

I think it should remain as an event. I think it looks really cool. If went to a competition that had it I would definitly compete. I think that there is not the same stress as in other events, it's realaxing. I don't see a real reason why we should remove the event. There are no judging problems like there were with magic. There are not many comps that hold the event so why can't cyberspace that really like it have a few comps with feet to go to? The megaminx wr holder Simon Westlund he is Swedish and he was on Sweden got talent he did a feet solve as the first performance and everybody liked it. The jury even stod up when he solved it in 45 seconds. And he won the hole competition. He didn't only do feet ofcourse
So my point is it should be an event for 2015. There are no good reasons imo to remove it.

 

[Kirjava]

speedsolving < the entire community. Feet lovers would DEFINITELY outnumber haters if they could give their opinion.

Two points;

Don't make claims like this with no evidence whatsoever to back it up.

Don't call people 'haters' just because they have a different opinion to you.

 

[the super cuber]

i think that feet should definitely be removed. this is my personal opinion that its extremely unsanitary and degrading to cubing and an event that i really dont want to participate in although i want to complete all official events ( currently i have 15) the reason that there arent many feet solvers officially isnt because its challenging but because most people simply dont want to solve a cube with their feet and its the reason that organisers dont want to have 3x3 feet as an event in their competitions. and if feet is removed we could just classify i as an old event (like magic and mastermagic) and still let people keep their records.i admit that feet solving might sound cool or amazing to non cubers but in a cubing society i dont think its needed any longer.

 

[kinch2002]

If feet wasn't an official event, would anyone start a thread asking to add it?
Hint:

Spoiler

No.

I think you would see it suggested in that 'Next Event to add' thread.
Anyway, you could easily say the same of many other events including Fewest Moves (I mean, why would we want such a weird event in SPEEDsolving?). You could say the same of many events in most sports that have multiple events. Not needing to be added doesn't mean that it needs to be removed.