Should 3x3x3 With Feet Remain an Official WCA Event?

[Ranzha]

I don't actively participate in Feet and don't intend to, but have no opinion on its removal.
Disclaimer: I have not witnessed competition in Feet up-close since 2011. At the next competition BASC organises, we want to hold feet.

Some points I've considered that weren't addressed here:

- Feet requires organisers to "set the stage" a little differently, since it is one of only two events to not have a timer+mat on a table. (The other event is FMC.) Naturally, this is what organisers "sign up for" if they want to hold feet, but it can disturb the rhythm/flow of the competition, particularly if there are many solving stations to set up/tear down.

- Unlike Magic and Master Magic, there are no logistical issues which make consistently judging feet impossible. However, writing down scores surfaceless and crouching to check for something like misalignment penalties takes a bit more effort/resource for judges than is usually required. Of course, the argument can be made that holding up a shield during BLD or keeping clocks from falling at the start of inspection requires more effort/resource for judges as well, so the issue of higher-responsibility judging isn't Feet-specific.

Sets of questions I have for anyone to answer:
1. Where do you most frequently attend competitions? How is Feet viewed in your competition community? How frequently do competitions you attend hold feet?
2. If you attend a competition where feet is held, and there is media coverage, does the media choose to record feet solves? What do you think of the exposure cubing gets from the media overall? What impact does media portrayal of solving with feet has on the public view of cubing, if applicable?
3. Besides those who have participated in feet, who is affected if feet were to be removed?
4. What sort of respect do you think feet deserves as an event currently?

 

[antoineccantin]

• A common "abuse" of the +2 misalignment penalty is to not perform the last move in a Feet solve if it would take more than 2 seconds. Removing Feet would resolve this problem.

That's seriously a terrible argument. Unless you average over about 5 minutes, this doesn't even give you an actual advantage. People slower than this shouldn't be competing in the event anyway.

I think that it is the best candidate for an event to be removed. Although I'm not too fussed for now. I would agree that it's the least professional event.

Sure, but I think things work well as they are now. Removing an event isn't very useful.

Feet actually started out as a joke. Not making this up.

I swear I saw somewhere that it was started partially because of Will Arnold or somebody who couldn't use their hands to solve it?

I don't practice feet YET and I think it should NOT be an official event.

My reason:
- Most WCA comps do not have every event at every comp. So if you live in a place where few comps happen every year than you only have the chance to participate in so many official events a year. It would suck if you couldn't do sq-1 or 5x5x5 BLD because feet was given a spot over them.

Most WCA comps do not have every event at every comp. So if you live in a place where few comps happen every year than you can probably never do feet.

- It seems that the majority of people who participate in feet are big on Sum of rank standings. Removing feet would give people big on Sum of Rank standings more time to practice for other official events.
- In regards to feet being popular, if people like feet they will keep on doing it even if it isn't an official event. Big blind 6x6x6+ isn't official, yet many people seem to really enjoy it.

All three of you arguments could be said for absolutely any other event.

Why should Russia's view on capitalism change the way the US government works?

Russia is capitalist lol

 

[BrianJ]

Of course, the argument can be made that holding up a shield during BLD or keeping clocks from falling at the start of inspection requires more effort/resource for judges as well, so the issue of higher-responsibility judging isn't Feet-specific.

At Iowa Corn Lovers, I forgot my clock so I judged clock instead. I constantly dropped the clock on the table and had to get it rescrambled. Six times, infact. I don't think judging feet would be as difficult as judging clock.

 

[Ranzha]

At Iowa Corn Lovers, I forgot my clock so I judged clock instead. I constantly dropped the clock on the table and had to get it rescrambled. Six times, infact. I don't think judging feet would be as difficult as judging clock.

I wasn't making a comparison between how difficult feet and clock are to judge.

Again: the issue of higher-responsibility judging isn't Feet-specific.

 

[Kirjava]

I swear I saw somewhere that it was started partially because of Will Arnold or somebody who couldn't use their hands to solve it?

Nope

 

[qqwref]

People want feet removed because they think it really hurts the image of the speedcuber to others. And why should that matter? Why should the opinion of others influence the community? Why should Russia's view on capitalism change the way the US government works?

What about people inside the community, then? Feet hurts the image of cubing to *me*, and I doubt I'm the only one.

 

[Ranzha]

Nope

Can confirm; Anders spoke about it at the Worlds regulations meeting last year.

 

[DeeDubb]

I definitely agree with Rami. Rami and Simon both have used feet to put the cube into the national spotlight. That's pretty amazing and significant. I have zero interest in doing feet solves, but I think it should remain an event.

Also, feet are much more hygienic than most people's hands. We touch so many things throughout the day that our hands are covered with germs. Our feet stay in our shoes. Sure, sweaty feet are gross, but I think most serious feet competitors don't want sweaty feet because it will hurt their solves. Maybe organizers can have hand sanitizer available for competitors to sanitize their feet with if hygiene is a major concern.

 

[AKOM]

I seriously think that feet should remain an official event. It's so much fun and I feel kind of... athletic. It makes me get off my butt when I've been sitting at a desk for so long and start doing something else. My friends from school are actually more impressed by my feet NAR than my 2x2 WR. This is because feet literally looks so complex and anybody could grab a standard cube at home and start turning it with their feet and admire how I can do about 2 turns a second when it takes them a whole minute to turn one. WHO CARES if it is a slow turning event. At the Indiana competitions, around 3 events would be held at once. When feet is held, the audience is waayyyyyyy more leaned towards watching feet. Why? Because it's special. My family LOVES watching feet. What kind of non-cuber wants to go to a competition and watch the same thing over and over -- people solving cubes over and over, in the same area. Feet just has a completely different setup, which gives the audience something DIFFERENT. NEW. INTERESTING.

As for the whole hygiene argument, I personally wash my feet well before every feet event. At home and at comps; it helps my times, actually. I'm pretty confident that feet are cleaner than hands, especially at competitions where hands are touching tons of cubes the entire day. In fact, I got a skin infection that we are sure was from my MIT competition. It lasted 8 months. Even if I didn't get it from a competition, I'm sure that I spread that thing to many cubers at the two competition I went to with it (Hillsdale Winter + Toronto Spring 2012). I don't think that kind of stuff will spread with feet. In all of my feet competitions, it has never smelled bad in the event. Also, at my last feet competition, Holy Toledo, feet was in a completely separate room and anybody could choose to watch OR not watch it. Yes, I'm aware that not all competitions have the ability to do this, but if possible, I'd encourage this to get rid of people saying "It's a distraction/annoying" at the competition (although I've never heard this quote).

I definitely don't support the removal of the event. My family will be sooo disappointed, as I said, because it brings fun and action. Did I not mention how the event is THE PHYSICAL REASON that I got onto America's Got Talent? Did I not mention that some of the best producers in the world that literally know exactly what an audience likes TOLD ME TO DO FEET ON THE SHOW?! Amazing, right? If the event was removed, I wouldn't be uploading videos of it, knowing that I wouldn't practice a non-WCA event (similar to how I was pretty darn good at magic and I stopped practicing as soon as it was removed), and this would mean that I simply wouldn't have been scouted to the show. Simon Westlund also did feet and got much attention on Britain's Got Talent. I'm pretty sure he doesn't do non-WCA events either.

By the way, who wants a pleasant experience at comps? I LIKE ACTION!

Lastly, that whole +2 penalty thing doesn't do much... Are you really going to freak out because the audience will ask you a question "Did you even solve it?" and you just have to say "Per WCA Regulations, 1 move away is a +2 second penalty; faster than the time it takes for me to do the actual move". If this bothers you, you are certainly anti-social and don't want to interact with your audience.

I totally agree with that.

Furthermore i don't understand the whole unsanitary argument, it seems a little exaggerated to me. How get your feet dirty over the competition, you have socks and shoes around them whereas your hands touch many public surfaces in toilets or trains or busses, or competitors are ill and spread bacteria over the cube or her hands. Basically i think hands are more unsanitary then feet (except feet diseases).

EDIT:

Also, feet are much more hygienic than most people's hands. We touch so many things throughout the day that our hands are covered with germs. Our feet stay in our shoes. Sure, sweaty feet are gross, but I think most serious feet competitors don't want sweaty feet because it will hurt their solves. Maybe organizers can have hand sanitizer available for competitors to sanitize their feet with if hygiene is a major concern.

Yeah, just wrote the same.

 

[Bob]

I have long been in support of removing 3x3 feet as an official event. My fingers are still crossed that 6x6, 7x7, 5x5BLD, and Multi are eventually removed, but I hate the 3x3 feet event so much more than the rest of them combined.

Some notes:
- I refuse to hold it at any competition I organize because it repulses me.
- For Worlds last year, we actually ordered separate timers for the 3x3 feet event and sold them after the event was finished.
- I think solving with feet is disgusting. For Worlds last year, I refused to touch the scorecards for the 3x3 feet event because the feet cubes touched them also. We had hand sanitizer at the scrambling table for accidental contact with feet cubes.
- Look at the registration costs for 3x3 with feet at US Nationals this year. If it were up to me, they'd be even higher.
- We have even joked about having registration costs for feet starting at $100 and reducing by $1 per day until 8 spots filled. After that, the event would be closed.
- Ew.

 

[slinky773]

- I refuse to hold it at any competition I organize because it repulses me.
- For Worlds last year, we actually ordered separate timers for the 3x3 feet event and sold them after the event was finished.
- I think solving with feet is disgusting. For Worlds last year, I refused to touch the scorecards for the 3x3 feet event because the feet cubes touched them also. We had hand sanitizer at the scrambling table for accidental contact with feet cubes.
- Look at the registration costs for 3x3 with feet at US Nationals this year. If it were up to me, they'd be even higher.
- We have even joked about having registration costs for feet starting at $100 and reducing by $1 per day until 8 spots filled. After that, the event would be closed.
- Ew.

That's… a bit…extreme…

For all of the reasons that Rami, AKOM, DeeDubb, etc. have been saying, I don't find 3x3 WF nearly as disgusting as you clearly find it to be. I also doubt that everybody except for the 3x3 WF competitors finds it disgusting, like you do. If no one thought it was gross, your second item on your notes list wouldn't be a problem, since no one would have an issue with the whole sanitation thing. Neither would your third item. From the perspective of someone who doesn't think it's so disgusting, the whole fuss about not wanting to touch feet cubes, for example, seems quite silly, and I think most everybody like Rami will find it silly too.

On another note, why are the registration costs for 3x3 WF so high? Are they planning to buy separate timers, like you noted that Worlds last year did? Or something else?

As another side note, what's the fuss about multi? I just don't get it, I guess.

 

[Coolster01]

I feel so bad for brazilians and europeans who don't speak the language of English to be posting here. There are wayyyy more feet solvers in Brazil, and I'm sure nobody there thinks it's silly at all.

speedsolving < the entire community. Feet lovers would DEFINITELY outnumber haters if they could give their opinion.

 

[Villyer]

I'm not familiar with feet events, however reading through this thread it seems like the main points against it seem to be negative image and grossness.

Negative image is just that, an imaging issue. If the media views it negatively, the two big solutions are to remove it or to work on changing the view. So imaging alone wouldn't be the main issue, because if everyone loved the event they would just work harder to get it more accepted by the general public.

I suppose the idea of a poll like this comes down to seeing how much of the community views the competition as too gross, because if most are repulsed by it I can see that being a viable reason to be removed. I personally see no issue with it, sweaty feet may smell bad but as far as germs and hygiene go they are typically way outmatched by hand germs. Using wipes on timers between solves to get the sweat off seems like more than enough of a precaution, with hand sanitizer things in the area for anyone else who wants it.

 

[Bob]

Think positive! High registration costs means the organizers make more money! Be a man, bro. You can't sustain some feet that had no contact with anything except socks, which the insides are clean all day? You may have some serious problems camping out or something. If you have touched bugs before, you shouldn't have a problem with feet. -_-

I am no stranger to getting dirty. In fact, I'm routinely filthy.

Spoiler

Spoiler

TBH, I'd rather eat bugs and worms than touch feet cubes.

That's… a bit…extreme…

On another note, why are the registration costs for 3x3 WF so high? Are they planning to buy separate timers, like you noted that Worlds last year did? Or something else?

We will have separate timers for them again this year, but the higher fee is mostly due to the inconvenience of the event I think. I don't think any of the organizers like it, but I'll let them speak for themselves.

As another side note, what's the fuss about multi? I just don't get it, I guess.

It's very time consuming and requires too much manpower to run.

 

[slinky773]

Using wipes on timers between solves to get the sweat off seems like more than enough of a precaution, with hand sanitizer things in the area for anyone else who wants it.

This seems pretty reasonable to me.

TBH, I'd rather eat bugs and worms than touch feet cubes.

Okay. Can you, uh, explain why that makes any sort of logical sense? Otherwise, it just seems like a phobia, or some irrationality to me, and probably to Rami and the rest of us.

 

[antoineccantin]

How about covering the timers with plastic wrap before using them? I used to do that when I started feet solving, and it worked fine.

 

[Tim Major]

It costs much less than the timers to get some wipes and gloves, especially considering the cost payed from competitors to compete in the event. You couldn't have thought of that idea at worlds?

Needing wipes, gloves, timers, plastic covers etc shows just how disgusting and ridiculous 3x3WF is.

You can't compare feet cubes with camping/etc because it's expected there. Why should we need special sanitizing equipment just for an event.

I was camping for 5 days with friends recently, no running water or electricity and it was fine, I'm not some germaphobe. Instead of using an outdoor analogy, how about comparing it to going to a restaurant, but using your feet to use the cutlery. It'd be so out of place and "gross" even feet aren't inherently gross, it's the context.

 

[anders]

To get the historical facts correct: feetsolving started with me. When I talked to a media representative before WC 2003, I mentioned that I had solved the cube with my feet in the 1980ies. She got it, and asked if I could do it on tv. I was a bit skeptic, but she insisted. Thus, I solved the cube with my feet in Canadian tv at WC 2003 and I also did a demo solve at the afterparty. The Seven Town people loved it and insisted that it should be an event on Euro 2004. I was the only registered competitor, but I talked a fellow Swedish cuber into taking part, and I ended up in second place. The rest is history.

Happy feetsolving,
Anders

 

[antoineccantin]

To get the historical facts correct: feetsolving started with me. When I talked to a media representative before WC 2003, I mentioned that I had solved the cube with my feet in the 1980ies. She got it, and asked if I could do it on tv. I was a bit skeptic, but she insisted. Thus, I solved the cube with my feet in Canadian tv at WC 2003 and I also did a demo solve at the afterparty. The Seven Town people loved it and insisted that it should be an event on Euro 2004. I was the only registered competitor, but I talked a fellow Swedish cuber into taking part, and I ended up in second place. The rest is history.

Happy feetsolving,
Anders

What's the thing I heard about with the guy that could only solve it with his feet then? Do you know of this?

 

[XTowncuber]

I'm digging that uniqueness that gets the audience going, "woah! something FUN to watch at a rubik's cube competition!"

Well, my family for one does not react that way. at all. They think that solving with feet is pretty much the worst idea anyone had ever. Just saying, idk if the spectators are as enthusiastic as you think they are

To see my opinions, read Bob's post.