[Help Thread] ZZ and ZB Discussion

[MM99]

So what do you guys think zz is really capable of? Do you think someone could match the current top cfop solvers or surpass them with enough practice? Personally I think it's easily reachable once we get to the point where we are finding first block in our inspection just like the cfopers do with the first pair but I think for someone to push the limits of zz they'll have to put in more time than you would have to with cfop because of all of your different starting lines and blocks etc. that can be made. anyway what do you guys think will we see the rise of a sub10 or lower zzer in 2014 or will it be sometime before we catch the heard

 

[aznanimedude]

Um. Uvafan and asmallkitten are both already official sub10

 

[cubingawsumness]

Alright so I've only been using zz for just under 2 months so there is still a lot I don't understand... One main question I have is how much more effective is the block building f2l over the classic pair by pair, And is forcing a block to be made really helpful or will all the setup you used in the block just be time and moves wasted. And another thing I'm wondering is do the good ZZers solve one side at a time (ex. if they made their block on the left they would put in the remaining left pair before they looked at the right) or will the just solve what ever looks to be the most efficient. The reason why I'm asking is because even though my times are already fairly low with zz compared to cfop (cfop 19 zz 25) it feels like I'm just doing a modified version of cfop instead of zz... anyway hopefully you guys can get me some answers because I really do want to continue with this method and try to do my part in getting it recognized as more than just a "lesser" method because it really can be just as fast as cfop we just haven't put enough time into it yet.

For F2L, if you are doing pair-by-pair by solving EOCross, definitely don't restrict yourself in that way. Try to look for 2x2 blocks as well, because they are often a better choice than just solving the cross piece and then doing 2 pairs. Doing EOCross will make your solves feel almost identical to CFOP solves, with a few extra moves in the beginning.
I personally don't consciously try to solve one entire "side" of the F2L before moving to the other (at least for 2H), but I can see how it might be better. I just kind of solve whatever I see. The ergonomic advantage for OH definitely makes it a better idea most of the time, but for 2H, switching between R and L moves isn't that hard.
Hope this helps. Good luck!

 

[MM99]

Um. Uvafan and asmallkitten are both already official sub10

Singles yes but not avg the fastest is 10.8x by Uvafan I believe

 

[MM99]

For F2L, if you are doing pair-by-pair by solving EOCross, definitely don't restrict yourself in that way. Try to look for 2x2 blocks as well, because they are often a better choice than just solving the cross piece and then doing 2 pairs. Doing EOCross will make your solves feel almost identical to CFOP solves, with a few extra moves in the beginning.
I personally don't consciously try to solve one entire "side" of the F2L before moving to the other (at least for 2H), but I can see how it might be better. I just kind of solve whatever I see. The ergonomic advantage for OH definitely makes it a better idea most of the time, but for 2H, switching between R and L moves isn't that hard.
Hope this helps. Good luck!

Thanks for the advice and yes I realized that I was doing it all wrong on the weekend and even though my times are suffering temporarily I know I'll learn to love blocks and the freedom they grant

 

[supercavitation]

I just switched from CFOP to ZZ about a week and a half ago (started cubing on Boxing Day), and I passed my CFOP times within two days. If I posted a video of a solve, would people be able to tell me where my weaknesses are (warning, the solve will take almost a minute, I'm currently pretty slow)? I'm averaging 70-odd moves a solve, so definitely not as efficient as I should be.

Additionally, what kind of potential does ZZ-porky have for 2H solving? Is it worth switching from standard OCLL/PLL to porky/2GLL or COLL/EPLL?

 

[uvafan]

I just switched from CFOP to ZZ about a week and a half ago (started cubing on Boxing Day), and I passed my CFOP times within two days. If I posted a video of a solve, would people be able to tell me where my weaknesses are (warning, the solve will take almost a minute, I'm currently pretty slow)? I'm averaging 70-odd moves a solve, so definitely not as efficient as I should be.

Additionally, what kind of potential does ZZ-porky have for 2H solving? Is it worth switching from standard OCLL/PLL to porky/2GLL or COLL/EPLL?

A solve may help but at the point you are at it is mostly just practice. I wouldn't discourage you though, if you have the means to film a solve, it couldn't hurt!

I would recommend staying with OCLL/PLL unless you are interested in OH solving, in which case you should eventually learn COLL. At the stage you are at, however, I think that OCLL/PLL will be just fine! Focus on F2L efficiency!

 

[supercavitation]

I filmed a solve, not sure how great the film quality is, and I lost the scramble. It's just my computer's built-in webcam taping the solve. Worth uploading?

 

[uvafan]

I filmed a solve, not sure how great the film quality is, and I lost the scramble. It's just my computer's built-in webcam taping the solve. Worth uploading?

It depends. Just how bad is the quality? If it's a computer webcam then it's probably not great - watch the video over again and see if we can tell what you are doing... if we can't then it is probably not worth uploading.

 

[supercavitation]

[video=youtube_share;TE0yfsKqlQM]http://youtu.be/TE0yfsKqlQM[/video]

I'm not sure if you'll be able to tell. I can tell what stage I'm at, but for clarification, the EOLine finishes with L2 R2 and a D move, I forget if it's D or D'. Additionally, I know most of PLL, and will be memorizing the remainder this weekend, so the 2-look there should go away quite soon.

 

[mDiPalma]

I just switched from CFOP to ZZ about a week and a half ago (started cubing on Boxing Day), and I passed my CFOP times within two days. If I posted a video of a solve, would people be able to tell me where my weaknesses are (warning, the solve will take almost a minute, I'm currently pretty slow)? I'm averaging 70-odd moves a solve, so definitely not as efficient as I should be.

Additionally, what kind of potential does ZZ-porky have for 2H solving? Is it worth switching from standard OCLL/PLL to porky/2GLL or COLL/EPLL?

ZZ-porky is not a good stand-alone method for 2H solving. However, it is good to know 2GLL so you can increase EPLL skip chances by ~1/7 in normal solves.

COLL/EPLL is good if your EPLLs are really quick and you can recognize them easily.

 

[Baku]

What is a good breakdown for getting sub 20 with ZZ? (Time splits)

 

[mDiPalma]

What is a good breakdown for getting sub 20 with ZZ? (Time splits)

4 second eoline
11 second f2l
3 second LL1
2 second LL2

 

[brian724080]

I know that the cross should always be done under 8 moves. Is there such number for the EOLine?

 

[Millet]

I know that the cross should always be done under 8 moves. Is there such number for the EOLine?

EO-line can always be done in 9 moves or less. The optimal average move count for EO-line is slightly above 6 moves.

 

[supercavitation]

I'm not sure if you'll be able to tell. I can tell what stage I'm at, but for clarification, the EOLine finishes with L2 R2 and a D move, I forget if it's D or D'. Additionally, I know most of PLL, and will be memorizing the remainder this weekend, so the 2-look there should go away quite soon.

I've tried to reconstruct the scramble on CubeExplorer and have failed several times now. Which part needs the most focus at the moment? I checked, it's L2 R2 D' to end the EOLine.

 

[supercavitation]

Hate to double post, I hope this doesn't quite count.

Current rough breakdown for solves:
5-10 second EOLine (still forced to EO+Line on occasion)
15-17 second F2L (assuming it's not a super lucky F2L)
8-12 Last Layer (mostly OCLL-PLL, a bit of COLL)

Which area needs the most work right now if I'm attempting to become sub-30?

I'm currently averaging in the lower 30s, around 32-33 seconds.

 

[aznanimedude]

IMO it should not be taking you 8 to 12 seconds for last layer, that's like 4-6 seconds a step. Either you are taking too long to recognize the cases or you need to practice your execution/find better algs. EOLine could be a little faster imo but that LL time looks a little too long and should be easily reduced

 

[Awesoham]

Hi, everyone! I started ZZ two weeks back, and I average about a minute or so now.
I'm planning to be Y-axis CN from the beginning itself, so what I do is practise solves alternating between green/blue and red/orange front, and it helps a lot. My EO inspection is terrible, but it's almost the same for any choice of F
Is it worth it to learn the Sune/Antisune COLL sets? I'm asking because I've noticed that Phil doesn't (and another bunch of people don't) but I just saw a thread where someone (I think his username was "bleh") had a nice recog explanation.

 

[aznanimedude]

That's up to you to decide. If you stop at COLL then its likely not worth it because the sune is fast enough anyway and faster than any COLL you'd likely do and the time you'd theoretically save over doing more awkward PLLs is not enough to compensate.

Now if you plan on doing ZBLL or ZZLL then even still light not be worth it but could be easier to justify