~Adam~
Legend
Not to mention the placebo effect from taking a cube apart, spending 30 mins working on it, then putting it back together. Adds up to a belief in a 'better' cube.
[Konsta Mod] ShengShou 4x4 solution to internal lock-ups
- Thread starter Konsta
- Start date
Not to mention the placebo effect from taking a cube apart, spending 30 mins working on it, then putting it back together. Adds up to a belief in a 'better' cube.
windhero
Veteran
Yeah well you'll never know until you do it yourself. I can tell from my own experience that it helps. It also cannot be reproduced by solving the cube a few hundred times. If plastic wore down that fast I should have an overmodded and unusable 4x4, because I have done close to 1000 solves after the mod. Overmodding is a bad job, it does not in any way represent what a good mod does to a cube. If someone says that konstamodding a V5 breaks the cube, they have overmodded it.
Actually it is all about how much the plastic there is on the pieces. If there is too much, it locks up. If there is too little, it breaks. If there is the right amount the cube performs well. It has nothing to do with opinions, it has to do with how the pieces move around the mechanism. This is not about the feeling of the cube; Its about modding the cube to avoid lockups. This is why people mod cubes. Not for the placebo, but for the result. This is why cube-o-holic according to his own words has bought atleast 2 modded cubes. I base my results on testing, not on how it feels.
[youtube]v=XDmnaHI8gY4[/youtube]
Also all of your arguments have actually backed up my initial statement, hope you realized that.
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Ninja Storm
Veteran
I feel like the most improvement, in that case, is from the fact that people usually lube their cube when they mod it.
KongShou
Veteran
how
windhero
Veteran
If the you do not even need to konsta mod the V5, then its a great cube out of the box for 8 dollars. Which makes it that much harder to beat. Which is why price matters.
mark49152
Premium Member
I earn a fair amount per hour, but I'm not going to earn any extra by not spending 3 hours modding. Besides which, modding is fun, even if it doesn't really improve the cube, and it brightens up my last 3 hours at work to think about the modding I'm about to do unpaid at home. Just my useless 2 cents there (which is about the value of a modded internal edge).
kcl
Legend
But if the cube is better, do we care? People are lazy. Why use more effort when it's not necessary? It's called efficiency. So if we can get a better cube, for only *insert dollar value, I'll guess $10 more*, why would we not pick to pay the extra $10 and not have to waste hours of our lives? If paying $10 more will give you a better cube than modding one for hours, it's honestly a no brainer.
In all honesty, let's get real here. You people started a flame war over a cube you haven't tried yet, and don't even know the price range. Really?
I'm done.
-Kennan
~Adam~
Legend
But nobody ever said the SS4 v5 is bad because it has internal lock ups.
The cube is OK but it's not great by any stretch of the imagination.
I wouldn't consider that a flame war and it started because an assumption was made with no evidence or knowledge to back it up. It kind of just escalated from there.
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windhero
Veteran
I'd really want to know what you are using for a 4x4 because what I have can be easily described as great. And out of the box the inner layers lock up. You can test that by doing the PLL parity over and over with an out of the box SS 4x4 v5. What do you base your opinion on? I base mine on having tried an unmodded cube and a modded one and then comparing the two by doing timed solved and comparing the standard deviation of the solves.
You are not going to get a 4x4 that performs like a 3x3. The reason to this is that there is plastic in the way (edge pieces).
And I agree on the last part: No one was insulted, there was no flaming. It was just a heated argument that never ended up in an agreement. That does not mean it was a bad discussion.
~Adam~
Legend
As I have already stated (albeit deleted now) I have a Konsta and Florian modded SS4 v3 and have a SS4 v5 which straight out of the box didn't have internal lock ups.
Another assumption based on nothing.
Yes, I expect that I will be able to purchase a 4x4 which performs almost as well as a 3x3 at some point in the future.
The MF8 + Dayan V1 was amazing except it was a little too big and popped like crazy. That was their 1st attempt at a 4x4 and have failed miserably to improve upon the design. That doesn't mean that the quality won't be reproduced in the future without the cons.
Do you realise how far 4x4s have come in a few years? Faz was breaking WRs with a QJ mini.
Anyway, I'm done. I have nothing left to say to you.
Another assumption based on nothing.
Yes, I expect that I will be able to purchase a 4x4 which performs almost as well as a 3x3 at some point in the future.
The MF8 + Dayan V1 was amazing except it was a little too big and popped like crazy. That was their 1st attempt at a 4x4 and have failed miserably to improve upon the design. That doesn't mean that the quality won't be reproduced in the future without the cons.
Do you realise how far 4x4s have come in a few years? Faz was breaking WRs with a QJ mini.
Anyway, I'm done. I have nothing left to say to you.
windhero
Veteran
You nicely left out the bit where I explained why its not possible. If you look into the mech you will understand why a 4x4 cannot possibly cut 45 degrees and thus cant be like a 3x3. If it ever was to cut 45 degrees it would have to make the corner piece and edgepieces extend out of the cube, which I dont really see happening with any desing. The SS 4x4 V5 already cuts halfway to the piece next to it (line to line or 30 degrees) which translates to 45 degrees on a 3x3. The reason you cant really cut any more than that is that the pieces get in the way.
I started cubing around '08 and bought my first 4x4 around that time. Now I have 7 different 4x4s so yeah, I'd say I know what has changed and what has not. Still there are physical limitations to cubes that are hard to change. The new cube wont cut anything more than an X-cube 4 if its based on the x-cube 4 mech.
Quit assuming I know nothing and try to base your arguments on some actual facts.
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yoinneroid
Veteran
windhero
Veteran
Each mechanism has it's limits. If it is based off the x-cube mech it will face the same limitations. With this I was mostly backing up my claim on why a 4x4 cant really cut any better than 30 degrees. By shaving off some plastic 30 degrees can be achieved but anything well above that cant happen in my opinion.
Reverse cutting might be a bit better because the roundness of the edgepieces, corner pieces and center corners actually matters there. The WeiSu-pieces look a little rounder than the X-cube 4 pieces (http://www.fasttech.com/products/2115/10002275/1165701-x-cube-4x4x4-puzzle-speed-cube)
Generally I think people are expecting too much out of bigger order cubes. I personally cannot come up with a feasible way to make a 4x4 cut 45 degrees or anything close it, because the rest of the pieces get in the way.
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rj
Veteran
I think it's possible, but you would probably sacrifice a lot of smoothness.
PeelingStickers
Veteran
my 4x4 can cut 45 on some sides, yet I think it sucks.
Also it rarely ever pops. It is slightly loose though
Also it rarely ever pops. It is slightly loose though
rj
Veteran
I Know what you mean. I have a SS 4x4 v1, and it's loud as hell. But it works OK.
windhero
Veteran
I'd love to see video material of this, because to be honest, I dont see that happening.
rj
Veteran
Are you saying that he's lying?
windhero
Veteran
Yep. Atleast overestimating the actual amount of corner cutting. I'm inviting anyone to examine what would hypothetically happen inside a 4x4 when cutting 45 degrees.
PeelingStickers
Veteran
OK, I'll do a video. Not saying its smooth and easy as a 3x3, and only a couple sides do it, but it is possible.
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