[Help Thread] Colour Neutral Discussion and Help

[MarcelP]

Dacuba, look at the signature of jskyler. There is a video what tells you to do.

 

[sneaklyfox]

CN Training Day 5

Green cross started today. Definitely harder than yellow which felt more or less like white. Caught myself accidentally doing yellow cross a few times! Mainly practiced F2L only. Felt really weird at first. Had to keep thinking, "Green, green, green". And then took even longer to think of what colours went with a corner that had green to see which edge colours I had to find to pair up. But I expected it to be hard.

After about 100 F2L solves, I did 20 or so full solves. Then another 100 or so F2L solves. Did another 20 or so full solves. So today's best Ao12 (of 56 solves) is 20.03. Best Ao5 19.09. All in all not bad I guess. 3 more days of green should see additional improvement.

 

[MarcelP]

And then took even longer to think of what colours went with a corner that had green to see which edge colours I had to find to pair up.

I reconize that completely. But then my times where well over 40 seconds on average when I started on different colors. I will promise you that the finding and 'thinking' will go away. In fact, it's been just three weeks since I have started to train CN and my Ao100 CN is less than 3 seconds off compared to my PB Ao100 on white cross. Now that vacation is over I do not have as much time on training as I would like. So I do mainly slow solves. And since yesterday I have found that I can look for the next pair while solving the current (on any color). That means, I do no longer have to think, what edge goes with what corner. It's magical I can tell you.

 

[sneaklyfox]

I actually haven't started training today yet, but after yesterday's post, I did another 60 or so solves but OH on green. I'm not very much slower on green than on white with OH. I guess because OH is just slower so I have more time to think about what I'm doing.

CN Training Day 6
Didn't practice as much as I wanted to, but still had improvement.
Best Ao5 = 18.48
Best Ao12 = 19.35

 

[sneaklyfox]

CN Training Day 7
Kinda distracted today...
Best Ao5 = 17.94
Best Ao12 = 18.66

 

[MarcelP]

Kinda distracted today...

I hope everything is allright?

Btw, do you do only timed solves? I think when you train only speed on green cross for 5 days you will see a huge drop back when you start mixing colors. I think it is relatively easy to see improvement in green crosses if you do only fast solves. If you practice let's say also 100 slow solves your brain gets adjusted to the color filter aswell. It that case when you have trained more colors switching from one color to another will not have huge drops in time. Just my 2 cents

 

[sneaklyfox]

I hope everything is allright?

Btw, do you do only timed solves? I think when you train only speed on green cross for 5 days you will see a huge drop back when you start mixing colors. I think it is relatively easy to see improvement in green crosses if you do only fast solves. If you practice let's say also 100 slow solves your brain gets adjusted to the color filter aswell. It that case when you have trained more colors switching from one color to another will not have huge drops in time. Just my 2 cents

Oh, I am alright. Just that a friend of mine might have a Down Syndrome baby and decided to do an amniocentesis. I was wrestling with the ethical issues so it was on my mind a lot yesterday. Still thinking about it today...

No, I do some slow solves too, not just timed. And I am on the 4219.5 marathon doing F2L only aiming for slow and smooth. I think I am getting adjusted to the colour filter too though sometimes I still forget. I'm sure it will continue to get better as I do blue because it's essentially the same as green. Well, we'll see how it goes. Thing is though, if CN training after this month doesn't feel how I would want it to feel, I'm not sure I would continue. I feel confident that if I really wanted to, I could become CN, but I am not absolutely convinced that CN is faster than single/dual colour. I might be faster, faster by sticking to one or two colours if you know what I mean. If you are going for WR, I do believe CN (if you are truly full CN without even bias) is going to be an advantage. But for how fast I'd like to be... it's quite doable with single colour cross though I probably will just aim for dual colour. Still, I will finish the month and write about my experience and decide then.

 

[MarcelP]

Thing is though, if CN training after this month doesn't feel how I would want it to feel, I'm not sure I would continue. I feel confident that if I really wanted to, I could become CN, but I am not absolutely convinced that CN is faster than single/dual colour.

I feel the same. I find CN big fun but I really am not convinced I will get faster. I will stick with CN at least untill I get my Ao100 white cross times. But by then I might have been much faster on white cross if would have been training white only. Also, if I reach the CN ao100 white PB, I still might be dominant white. If so, I might decide then to stick with white crosses.

 

[sneaklyfox]

CN Training Day 8 (green)

Best Ao5 = 17.52
Best Ao12 = 18.63

After some F2L only solves, my first 12 full solves got 18.63. That was earlier in the day. Didn't get to sit down again until this evening and gave up trying because I was having trouble getting sub-20 solves. I thought yesterday it started to feel better but somehow tonight I went back to how it felt the first day. I had to think too hard. I hope my white cross times are not suffering (I mean when I finish the month). I must be getting out of the habit of looking ahead since I need help just recognizing and executing a case properly! I'm still having trouble seeing green pieces even when I am trying to look ahead. Well, one more day of green and then it is yellow/green.

 

[MarcelP]

I hope my white cross times are not suffering (I mean when I finish the month).

I have been thinking about that too, but in worse case scenario you just have to train a few days white only Just like you train green now. I highly doubt you will loose any speed. I broke my Ao100 whitecross PB 10 days after practicing CN only. But the thing that keeps me wondering is, how fast would I have been if I had been training white only Maybe I would have a 27 or 26 Ao100 by now

 

[jskyler91]

I have been thinking about that too, but in worse case scenario you just have to train a few days white only Just like you train green now. I highly doubt you will loose any speed. I broke my Ao100 whitecross PB 10 days after practicing CN only. But the thing that keeps me wondering is, how fast would I have been if I had been training white only Maybe I would have a 27 or 26 Ao100 by now

Try not to worry so much about times you guys, use this time to learn some algs or work on your turning style, anything but times. Switching to CN takes some time and if you try to rush it or force it too quickly you are going to get frustrated and will likely not suceed. By constantly focusing on your times you are taking away from the joys and new fields of improvement that being CN can offer you such as increased X-cross chances, more pair preservations, ridiculously easy crosses, improved lookahead into first few pairs due to easier crosses, and most importantly a radical reordering of how you think of the cube from being a ridged 1 sided, 1 color centered, restraining device to an open and multicolored, multifaceted puzzle with a multitude of different solutions at any one point using the same method even.

Being CN will take some time, but the payoffs are worth it and the advantages you gain in pair and x-crosses alone is completely worth it. The only way you will really find these benefits, however is if you allow yourself time to explore the cube in a color neutral way. This cannot be done while solving quickly or even moderately fast. You need to take those 5 days per color and explore what adding that new color to your stock does for you and spend time examining how you might go about inspecting the cube with that new color, get comfortable with the f2l pieces and learn to create a filter of all other colors save the ones you are learning to work with.

Take time to practice switching filters between your available stock of colors and learn to think in terms of opposite colors as being virtually the same thus limiting you actual number of colors down to 3. This can be done be realizing that opposite colors share the same F2l pieces and are thus the same filter you just switch which color you are looking for i.e. Red for Orange or vice. Try some blockbuilding with every new color and the try blockbuilding with all of your available stock of colors. As you gain more colors you will notice that blockbuilding becomes easier and you will start to see blocks all over the place that you completely ignored when you were color fixed. Make it a goal to build an x-cross every solve when your practicing and at the end of each day do 6 solves building x-crosses on each with each of the 6 colors.

Only when you do things like this will you start to see how beneficial being CN can be to you and the journey of learning to think in this new way will have improved you far more than just doing 50 solves on each color a day and then complaining that your still faster with your original color.

 

[Dacuba]

Sadly I had to realise, that transitioning to CN is not a good idea that close to my next comp, thus I'll take a break till the first february weekend.

Jskyler, I love how motivating your posts are. Keep that up

 

[MarcelP]

Try not to worry so much about times you guys, use this time to learn some algs or work on your turning style, anything but times. Switching to CN takes some time and if you try to rush it or force it too quickly you are going to get frustrated and will likely not suceed.

You are right. I am real close to my white cross times now. It's just that this is such a time minded hobby I continue CN anyway. Even if I decide to choose white cross only in competition, I will continue solving color neutral. It's just great fun X-cross and stuff is for now too advanced for me anyway. I even have troubles completing a normal cross blind.

 

[jskyler91]

You are right. I am real close to my white cross times now. It's just that this is such a time minded hobby I continue CN anyway. Even if I decide to choose white cross only in competition, I will continue solving color neutral. It's just great fun X-cross and stuff is for now too advanced for me anyway. I even have troubles completing a normal cross blind.

Thats good, being CN is much more fun IMO anyway, I mean why would I want to only solve 1 color all day everyday? That sounds ridiculously boring. And I know it seems hard now, but if you started blockbuilding early on in your career you would be 10x as good at it as me by the time you reach sub 15. Also just practicing blockbuilding in general is always an excellent idea. IMO, blockbuiling is key to understanding how the cube works and helps you to recognize shorter and more effect solutions to any given scramble. The sooner you can get working on it the better and why not do two of the hardest things together in a way that will make both more fun and intuitive? Just my opinion of course, but I some, not all, of this stuff when I was transitioning and it helped and in retrospect I should have done more because it would have eased the transition and put me ahead of the game really early on in my cubing career.

 

[MarcelP]

Thats good, being CN is much more fun IMO anyway, I mean why would I want to only solve 1 color all day everyday? That sounds ridiculously boring. And I know it seems hard now, but if you started blockbuilding early on in your career

In which video do you explain the block building? Sounds like I want to start now

 

[jskyler91]

In which video do you explain the block building? Sounds like I want to start now

, working on blockbuilding for me is just another way of saying build single and double x-crosses. All an x-cross is is just a 2x2x2 block and two cross pieces attached so watching my x-cross vids will help you out immensely. Just pay attention to the "tricks" I teach you and how they work to form a 2x2x2 block. Even my vids on working with pair preservation can be useful as CN blockbuilding often starts with a formed pair and then builds from there. I haven't made any direct block building vids though I might now that you make me think of it. I actually started blockbuiliding using Lars Petrus's site particularly the first step on building a 2x2x2 block: http://lar5.com/cube/fas1.html

 

[TheNextFeliks]

I am going to start CN. But a month is a while. My plan is to practice the four remaining, one at a time until I get like sub-35 and comfortable with it. I am w/y neutral.

 

[jskyler91]

I am going to start CN. But a month is a while. My plan is to practice the four remaining, one at a time until I get like sub-35 and comfortable with it. I am w/y neutral.

Good luck check out my posts a few lines up about how to practice CN more effectively if you want some tips for how to make this transition as easy and enjoyable as possible.

 

[sneaklyfox]

CN Training Day 9 (green)

Best Ao5 = 17.69
Best Ao12 = 18.36

Wasn't so bad today. Didn't have to think so hard.

 

[sneaklyfox]

CN Training Day 10 (green + yellow)
Best Ao5 = 17.23
Best Ao12 = 18.05

Don't know how much of that had to do with yellow crosses. I did 84 full solves. Best single of the day was 13.60 with a green cross.