Religion?

[Bryan]

You might be right. I heard of a passage in a religious book(maybe the Koran) where some children were making fun of a bald man. The bald man cursed them in the name of his lord and right after, two bears came out and tore the children apart. What do you think of that passage?

Well, I deleted my post because it was posted above, but that's gone now. But it's from 2 Kings 2:23-25.

 

[PatrickJameson]

Well, I deleted my post because it was posted above, but that's gone now. But it's from 2 Kings 2:23-25.

View attachment 1853

Haha, you ruined my fun. I knew where it was from, I just wanted to see what he thought of the passage without him knowing it was straight out of the bible.

 

[shelley]

So you're saying every religious person believes killing is justified?

No, I did not say that at all. That wasn't even anywhere close to my point.

you can't possibly say that religion is bad because of that.

The fact that it happens at all, even once, is deplorable. And it has happened more than once. It continues happening in the 21st century, when we should know better. So yes, religion is bad because of that. Not because it makes every believer a killer, but because it can be twisted to justify very terrible things.

 

[Bryan]

The fact that it happens at all, even once, is deplorable. And it has happened more than once. It continues happening in the 21st century, when we should know better. So yes, religion is bad because of that. Not because it makes every believer a killer, but because it can be twisted to justify very terrible things.

So what if someone killed someone, and then became a Christian and said, "If I knew then what I know now, I wouldn't have killed." Wouldn't that mean that atheism kills and it's deplorable?

 

[PatrickJameson]

So what if someone killed someone, and then became a Christian and said, "If I knew then what I know now, I wouldn't have killed." Wouldn't that mean that atheism kills and it's deplorable?

The lack of belief in a god does not in it self promote killing people while some interpretations of religious texts may conclude that some gods want you to kill people for various reasons.

 

[d4m4s74]

So what if someone killed someone, and then became a Christian and said, "If I knew then what I know now, I wouldn't have killed." Wouldn't that mean that atheism kills and it's deplorable?

As far as I don' t know there is no atheist manifesto telling you to kill people who don't agree with you. While most if not all religious text do say that

 

[Bryan]

The lack of belief in a god does not in it self promote killing people while some interpretations of religious texts may conclude that some gods want you to kill people for various reasons.

Huh? I didn't say atheism promotes killing, but the fact that it doesn't discourage it could in fact lead to a situation I describe above. If in a non-religious context, if someone says, "We should just kill these people because we don't like them and they are worthless." What in atheism is preventing them from killing? If they believed in the Bible and said, "Well, we don't like them, but we're instructed not to kill and they are also made in the image of God, so we shouldn't kill."

Yes, I know it's kind of an extreme example, but I'm just making the point that if the argument that being atheist isn't automatically instilling things like "not killing" just like Christianity isn't instilling "killing".

 

[shelley]

If atheism is simply a lack of religious belief, of course it doesn't instill anything. Secular morals are perfectly capable of keeping people from killing each other in a non-religious society. I never said being atheist automatically makes you a non-murderer, just that religion can be used to justify murder.

 

[5BLD]

What could prevent them is simply conscience. Every human will just know it's morally wrong.
They could think "we are all human beings therefore I shouldn't kill them as it's not morally right"

 

[JonnyWhoopes]

What could prevent them is simply conscience. Every human will just know it's morally wrong.
They could think "we are all human beings therefore I shouldn't kill them as it's not morally right"

What's your basis for that morality? Yourself?

 

[Bryan]

I never said being atheist automatically makes you a non-murderer, just that religion can be used to justify murder.

I never said you did. I just asked if you were going to paint religion as bad because it was used for justification of killing, would you be willing to paint atheism the same way if it was shown that not being atheist would have prevented it?

 

[5BLD]

What's your basis for that morality? Yourself?

Yes. What you believe from yourself will have much more of an impact than beliefs from outside- you may start to question beliefs from outside but you know what is right in yourself... IMO. If I said that right.

 

[Godmil]

Everyone is arguing around the point. Fact is there is no reason for anyone with a secular or religious viewpoint to have 'better' morals than another. However, it has been shown that people who believe they have a moral superiority are more likely to act outside of that framework if they think the ends justify the means. Ponder that and see if it fits the way people behave.

 

[shelley]

I never said you did. I just asked if you were going to paint religion as bad because it was used for justification of killing, would you be willing to paint atheism the same way if it was shown that not being atheist would have prevented it?

Atheism doesn't tell you to kill the same way religion would.

Not being at the scene of the murder would also have prevented the murder. That doesn't mean simply being at the scene of the murder could be used as justification for killing.

 

[Divineskulls]

Religion isn't the only thing that provides morals. Everytime something happens to you, you learn from it, and depending on what you learn, your morals are affected positively or negatively.

Edit: Quadruple ninja'd? O.O

 

[Bryan]

Atheism doesn't tell you to kill the same way religion would.

Or wouldn't, if you believe the 10 commandments. But I'm not saying it's in the same way, I'm simply asking if the end result (a killing occurs) would justify the same condemnation of the set of beliefs (whether it's Christianity or atheism*). The answer is either yes or no.

*- And before someone goes "Atheism isn't a set of beliefs, it's no beliefs". That person has a set of beliefs, they just don't have beliefs about God (or it's the belief that God doesn't exist).

 

[JonnyWhoopes]

Yes. What you believe from yourself will have much more of an impact than beliefs from outside- you may start to question beliefs from outside but you know what is right in yourself... IMO. If I said that right.

So we can all have different morals according to that, right? Or does everybody believe the same things from themselves?

 

[Hershey]

*- And before someone goes "Atheism isn't a set of beliefs, it's no beliefs". That person has a set of beliefs, they just don't have beliefs about God (or it's the belief that God doesn't exist).

To me, atheism in general is just rejecting belief in any god, and then to be more specific there are all these philosophies that can tie in with being an atheist.

 

[Yuxuibbs]

I'm actually surprised no one said cubing was their religion.

 

[collinbxyz]

I'm actually surprised no one said cubing was their religion.

I might make this my sig =D