Should a beginner start with the best cube available?

[iseldoff]

Turning super accurately isn't really a good thing. You should take advantage of all the corner-cutting your cube has to offer. If I am doing U' R and I corner cut at 30 degrees, then I have eliminated the last 1/3 of the U' turn. Therefore I should be able to perform U' R in 1/6 less time than if I hadn't corner cut. Pushing your cube to its limits take time to get used to, which is another reason beginners should start with a good cube.

Very good point!

 

[iseldoff]

Bump.

 

[Cubetastic]

If you have a really horrible cube than sure you should upgrade, but most rubiks brand cubes if you play with them for a bit even without lube can allow for some fingertricks

 

[pi.cubed]

I think it is best to save the advantages of getting a faster cube for when you need them.
Most people will improve at least slightly when they move from say, a Rubik's brand to a specially designed speedcube.
If you move onto a Guhong, for example, when you are averaging 1 minute you may go down to 50 seconds. But if you had kept practising for another week or two, you would have got to 50 seconds anyway.
IMHO you should save this boost until you reach a barrier and are stuck for a while- you can then just buy a better cube and get past the block easily.

 

[Godmil]

If you move onto a Guhong, for example, when you are averaging 1 minute you may go down to 50 seconds. But if you had kept practising for another week or two, you would have got to 50 seconds anyway.

But if you change cube and practice for another week or two, you'll be below 50.

IMHO you should save this boost until you reach a barrier and are stuck for a while- you can then just buy a better cube and get past the block easily.

Just to be clear here, when people are talking about getting a 'boost' from moving onto a new cube, what they're meaning is, their old cube is holding them back, and by removing that barrier you get to the speed you're capable of.
I don't think people should have their cube being a significant limiting factor.

 

[pi.cubed]

IMHO you should save this boost until you reach a barrier and are stuck for a while- you can then just buy a better cube and get past the block easily.

Just to be clear here, when people are talking about getting a 'boost' from moving onto a new cube, what they're meaning is, their old cube is holding them back, and by removing that barrier you get to the speed you're capable of.
I don't think people should have their cube being a significant limiting factor.

Yeh, that's certainly true. You should change your cube before the cube itself becomes the problem.
But most people will reach a reasonable block in their times before they get to the stage of the cube itself holding them back. For example,a Rubik's storebought is capable of sub-20 time (and faster), but some people, for whatever reason, will get stuck at 25 seconds. Getting a new cube will instantly improve their times by a few seconds, even though the original problem was not the old cube. This is because with their current techinique, they can turn at a faster tps on a F2, for example, than a Rubik's brand cube. Their technique may be 'worthy' of 2tps. However, on an F2, their technique gives them 2.5tps. Their new cube instantly lowers their times by a few seconds with very little (if any) work, even though their older cube allows them just as fast speeds with just a bit of extra work on turning speed/technique.
My point is that this easy, labour-free improvement should be saved for when you are stuck, even if the problem is not related to the current cube (and if it is related to the cube, by all means buy a better one!).

I think this explains a bit better... I'm not very good at getting ideas from my brain into writing effectively.

Thanks.

 

[Godmil]

If you're saying someone is automatically faster on a new/better cube, but it wasn't the old cube that was holding them back, then what does account for the time difference?

I'm suggesting an old/bad cube is a limiting factor on your speed. Not to say that a cube is only capable of a certain speed, rather resistance, lack of corner cutting and lockups will slow you down by say 10% regardless of what your actual times are.

 

[Florian]

Turning super accurately isn't really a good thing. You should take advantage of all the corner-cutting your cube has to offer. If I am doing U' R and I corner cut at 30 degrees, then I have eliminated the last 1/3 of the U' turn. Therefore I should be able to perform U' R in 1/6 less time than if I hadn't corner cut. Pushing your cube to its limits take time to get used to, which is another reason beginners should start with a good cube.

When you cut the corner at 30° your turn is slower then a super accrutate turn

 

[DaKrazedKyubizt]

There's a reason why there's a thread that talks about beginner cubes. There's also a reason many people don't start beginners on the best cube available.

Sheng'en FII all they way for beginner cubes. I start most people on those just because they're cheaper than storeboughts (barring shipping), the quality of the cube makes it a bargain for the price, and even though it locks up sometimes, it's still good enough for the purposes of the beginner. Plus, you don't know if that beginner is going to drop cubing altogether at some point and decide never to pick it up again, and that would make buying such an awesome cube, like a Dayan, a waste of money. Let the beginner decide whether or not they want a really good professional-level cube or whatnot after they've had a good taste of speedcubing to decide whether or not they like the activity, but start them off with something relatively small, like the FII, just to keep them from gathering distaste for speedcubing from using an often-impossible-to-turn storebought cube. We want to add invite more people into the cubing community, but we don't want to hamper their development either by giving them something too fast. That's why the FII and other cubes of similar stature make a nice compromise that fits both needs very well.

EDIT: Now, if you were going to start a beginner on ONE of the best cubes available, I'd go with an unmodded Dayan Lunhui with torpedoes. I have two of them, one with torpedoes and one without, but both cubes seem to be ridiculously sturdy and extremely forgiving, perfect for a beginner.

And if you already know that the person is actually going to be getting into speedcubing and not dropping it for a long time, then sure, why not? Go buy them the best cube available. Just make sure it's very sturdy and very forgiving.

 

[Kirjava]

that would make buying such an awesome cube, like a Dayan, a waste of money

They aren't expensive.

 

[DaKrazedKyubizt]

They aren't expensive.

I know, but i'm stingy. My parents have other things to pay for, like bills and my college tuition. We can't afford anything that's more expensive than necessary. I don't know about other people, but if I can save money, why not? I would think some others would agree. And chances are, if they're really going to get into speedcubing, they'll eventually buy more than one cube, so it doesn't necessarily mean they'll be wasting money by going for something decent but cheap. But that would get into theoretical/philosophical debates about whether or not we can predict the future of the cubes we buy by the cubes we start with as a beginner, lol.

 

[HelpCube]

I've said this many times, but I'll say this again. Why do batters in baseball use a donut before they go up to bat? So that the lighter bat is easier to swing and feels effortless compared to the bat with the donut on it. Doesn't this apply to cubes?

I also heard someone say that this is purely for strength, but if you know anything about baseball you know swinging a heavy bat for 30 seconds isn't really strength training. Just makes you used to something harder to use than what you will actually use.

 

[Kirjava]

DaKrazedKyubizt - Dayan cubes are just as cheap as any other brand.

Doesn't this apply to cubes?.

No one practises on a Rubik's brand before doing official solves on a better cube.

 

[DaKrazedKyubizt]

DaKrazedKyubizt - Dayan cubes are just as cheap as any other brand.

I usually see Dayans priced around $10-16 depending on the type. Sheng'ens are consistently around $8. Technically, that's cheaper.

And again, I said I'm stingy.

EDIT: Idk, maybe I'm using the wrong sites. If you see cheaper Dayans, you tell me. (That wasn't an argument, I'm being totally serious about that. I like cheap cubes.)

 

[Kirjava]

Just because you're stingy doesn't mean every single new cuber should use an inferior cube for the sake of a quid. You even suggested ShengEn, which is more than double the cost of other cubes you can get.

We want an answer that applies to everyone, not just people wanting to save as much money as they can.

 

[DaKrazedKyubizt]

Just because you're stingy doesn't mean every single new cuber should use an inferior cube for the sake of a quid. You even suggested ShengEn, which is more than double the cost of other cubes you can get.

We want an answer that applies to everyone, not just people wanting to save as much money as they can.

It's still just my opinion, it's not the final verdict, so there's no need to say things like that. I didn't mean it to say that "every single new cuber should use an inferior cube for the sake of a quid".

Besides, who's the "We" in "We want an answer that applies to everyone"? Not everybody in reading this thread would agree with you that my comment was stupid (or useless, or whatever adjective with a negative connotation you were implying to describe my comment), but I think it is clear that, at the least, you have that POV. Hey, someone might find my comment useful. Or maybe you're right and everyone will agree with you, and then i'll end up looking like another one of the cubers who everyone thinks is stupid. Who knows? I sure don't, because the future is not 100% predictable. But I do know that it's kind of hard to generate an answer that applies to everyone. Different people have different demands, and price is often a big demand, but so is quality, and I just think the Sheng'en FII is a decent compromise between the two. That was my two cents, and my two cents is obviously pretty worthless, or at least to you it is, so I guess I'll try to make a more useful comment next time. I was just trying to help.

If there's other cubes that you think would be more suitable as a compromise, please state them. I'd like to know for my own personal benefit so that I can help teach others. I honestly don't know much about what cubes are in what shops at what prices, and I often buy cubes for beginners, just to make the speedcubing and the community dedicated to it look a bit more appealing/inviting/welcoming.

 

[Kirjava]

The question is assuming that no compromise is required and the beginner has a selection of any cube.

No need to write a paragraph about how I've upset you or whatever the hell I did. You gave your opinion and I gave my opinion on it. Please don't say that I have attacked you when I have not, it's childish.

 

[Olji]

When I buy a cube for someone I always let them do the choice, I tell them the pros and cons of various cubes I have, usually I let them try them, from Dayans to good cheapos for 3-4$.
From that the choice is theirs, most of the time they have jumped on the Guhong(They all picked stickerless since they don't care about competitions yet), I had one who bought a GH-II, but now he is thinking about upgrading to a Dayan.

One of the Guhong owners is casual, he don't care about times at all, while one has just started and is asking me for some advice from time to time, another one is considering getting a stickered, so maybe he got his eyes up for competitions...
If you buy an F-II you'll probably have to buy stickers also, which will increase the price a little. (but not much at all if you buy stickers at the same time or from a site with free shipping.)

Dayan is great for casual cubing too, and if they quit then they can simply sell it, since it's a rather popular brand today.

 

[DaKrazedKyubizt]

The question is assuming that no compromise is required and the beginner has a selection of any cube.

No need to write a paragraph about how I've upset you or whatever the hell I did. You gave your opinion and I gave my opinion on it. Please don't say that I have attacked you when I have not, it's childish.

Oh, now that's a much clearer question. If that's the case, then. I'd say forget Sheng'en FII, go Dayan LunHui. Maybe another Dayan would be better though. They're all pretty awesome.

But seriously, can you tell me of some other cheaper cubes? I actually need to know. I teach a lot of people.

EDIT: Gosh darn it, I hate typing responses to anything. I always have to be so careful with words to avoid an argument. It's so much easier to express opinions properly in IRL. So many useless arguments stemming from my own typed arguments could be avoided if I said them IRL. Typing makes me sound stupid and childish 99% of the time (unless I sound like that in IRL too and don't know it, lol). Facial expression and tone of voice does so much for an argument. Without them, you have to triple-check for so many things (i.e. do I sound aggressive, do I sound calm and clear-minded, do I sound stupid, do I sound smart, do I sound like I'm actually trying to help, etc.).

EDIT2: And then you have assume things about what the other person is saying, and then you say the wrong thing in response, and then.... yeah, you get the picture.

 

[Kirjava]

Mini DS is cheap.

Just go to lightake (or anywhere) and select price lowest to highest on the cubes category. It's not rocket surgery.